employee withholding pay

red1981

Hello...
I'm just looking for some advice on the following....

basically i caused damaged to company property and after recieving a letter of redundancy was informed that my holiday pay would be withheld from me in compensation for damages. The amount i was owed in holiday pay was £350 whereas damages were £2500. It stated in my employment contract that i was liable for any damages to business property. I was however provided with a written statement further to the preious contract which did not mention such liability. I am just wondering whether my employer has the right to withhold this money. My employer says he has legal advice which confirms that he is able to withold holiday pay but i just want to check.

Ta.

Savvy_Sue

It may depend on the precise wording of your contract / statement of terms and conditions. I think if it says you're liable, without saying that such damages may be withheld from your pay, they may not be able to withhold your pay without your prior agreement.

But taking advice from ACAS might be worthwhile.

red1981

Hi Savvy_Sue

It does clearly state in the initial contract of terms and conditions that any damages to business property will be deducted from my wage/holiday/redundacy.

ACAS have confirmed this to be correct....I am just wondering whether the fact i was later issued with a written statement at a later date which failed to mention this...would i be able to get off the hook? Is there a difference between a contract of terms and conditions and a written statement?

Thanks.

red1981

I did at first accept this situation and say that the deduction was fine....will that go against me now?

Savvy_Sue

red1981 wrote: »

Hi Savvy_Sue

It does clearly state in the initial contract of terms and conditions that any damages to business property will be deducted from my wage/holiday/redundacy.

ACAS have confirmed this to be correct....I am just wondering whether the fact i was later issued with a written statement at a later date which failed to mention this...would i be able to get off the hook? Is there a difference between a contract of terms and conditions and a written statement?

Thanks.

If it's clear that the later statement is a summary update to your initial 'contract' then you don't have a leg to stand on. If it's a completely new statement which says it supersedes the original, possibly you'd get off on a technicality. Not being an expert in this area, just someone who has to be aware of things for her job, I wouldn't like to say, and I certainly wouldn't disagree with ACAS!

red1981 wrote: »

I did at first accept this situation and say that the deduction was fine....will that go against me now?

I'd say so ...

Sorry, but I guess losing £350 holiday pay is better than losing the full cost of the damages.

rupee99

Depends how you damaged the company property, e.g. did you do it deliberately? Were you negligent? Was it in the course of your duties?

red1981

Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The damage was not done deliberately but i was negligent in my behaviour. I know the damage was my fault and accept that I guess I just dont want to lose out on holiday pay and am trying to find a clause which will see the written statement overide the employment contract i was given when commencing work.

Although there is nothing in the written statement to say it is to replace my employment contract i was hoping a tribunal would go my way.

Does anyone know how long tribunals last and whether they are easy things to deal with?

Savvy_Sue

You can search this board for threads about tribunals, I don't recall a case like yours and I'm not sure that tribunal would be the way to go anyway, I think it would be small claims court for unlawful deduction of pay, have a hunt for that too.

Certainly tribunals for things like dismissal are stressful, drag on, and some people feel it's better to move on.

From what you say, it does not sound as if you have a strong case - you admit negligence, and you admit that you said 'OK' when told your holiday pay would be docked, AND you have an initial contract which says it can happen. You are presumably getting some redundancy pay, so some would say you are getting off lightly because for negligence you could have been dismissed for gross misconduct, couldn't you?

If you ever need a reference from this company, I believe they can say if there were any 'issues' like this, and if you take them to court why wouldn't they? Especially if you cost them time, money and aggravation, AND they win the case, proving they were right all along.

Is it worth it?

Also what did the later statement actually cover? Did it make any substantive changes to your contract, or did it just note a change of salary, hours, or something like that?

red1981

Thanks Savvy_Sue, i appreicate your replies.

Yes indeed i agree i could have been dismissed and am thankful that i wasnt. It is only a small company which i worked for and so i am grateful.

The later statement was really just a summary. The main changes were to the hours worked....other things stayed the same.

I will have a a further search on these forums....but yes maybe it is not worth me pursueing the situation.

Zazen999

red1981 wrote: »

Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The damage was not done deliberately but i was negligent in my behaviour. I know the damage was my fault and accept that I guess I just dont want to lose out on holiday pay and am trying to find a clause which will see the written statement overide the employment contract i was given when commencing work.

Although there is nothing in the written statement to say it is to replace my employment contract i was hoping a tribunal would go my way.

Does anyone know how long tribunals last and whether they are easy things to deal with?

Unless the written statement was called 'contract of employment' and included ALL the details usually in a contract; then it won't override it. A statement will usually be an amendment to the contract, with regards to a few particulars - it certainly won't override it.

A tribunal would not go your way - and you could be out of pocket for expenses; but if you feel that having the condition of recovery written into your statement is not enough to put you off, then try calling an employment solicitor next week and see what they say.

To me, it looks like they have crossed the ts and dotted the is......which will keep them out of the courts. You have to be reasonable here; what grounds do you actually have [apart from being out of pocket and being annoyed about it] to take them to a tribunal for £350 when they are out of pocket by £2150? You don't need to search these forums; there is no case for them to answer!

woody01

red1981 wrote: »

Hi,
Thanks for the replies.
The damage was not done deliberately but i was negligent in my behaviour. I know the damage was my fault and accept that I guess I just dont want to lose out on holiday pay and am trying to find a clause which will see the written statement overide the employment contract i was given when commencing work.

Although there is nothing in the written statement to say it is to replace my employment contract i was hoping a tribunal would go my way.

Does anyone know how long tribunals last and whether they are easy things to deal with?

You have been negligent and damaged property belonging to someone else. Why should you get away with not paying for it (the insurance excess most likely)?

As for tribunal, this will NEVER get there. The panel would simply never let it go to the table. If by a 100000000 to 1 chance it did, the payment would be no more than you have already forfeited anyway.

Accept you made a mistake (if that is what it was), and move on as your attitude is a very selfish one as they should've fired you anyway and you wouldve got nothing at all.