Title Deeds Release Fee

AndrewSmith

homer_j wrote:

It is irrelevant in the comaprison of the 2 fees. You cannot argue that the charges are punitive for one simple reason. They are not charging you for breaking the terms and conditions of the contract, they are saying that they are charging you for them to close your account down and ensure that they are removed as having an interest in your property.

There is a big difference in charging for a service and charging as a penalty clause. This is a service not a penalty clause.

Precisely.

lisyloo

You cannot argue that the charges are punitive for one simple reason.

I would say you CAN argue that they are out of line with the work involved if they are high enough.

My terms and conditions (with A&L) stated something along the lines that any admin fees would reflect the work involevd.

I felt £295 was too high for marking the account as closed and putting deeds in an envelope.
I also felt that a 100% increase was not warranted when inflation is around 2% and wage inflation around 4%.
I successfully challenged them.

The experience is that the lenders don't want to go to the ombudsman about this (as the ombudsman fees are higher than the amount being disputed) therefore it is common for them to reduce or waive the fees.

My feeling is that IF fees are not in the same league and are not unreasonable (plus they have not increased out of all proportion).

There is a big difference in charging for a service and charging as a penalty clause. This is a service not a penalty clause.

I agree with you, but some lenders are charging unreasonble amounts for their services and you CAN successfully complain about it.
I agree it isn't the same as a penalty, it still doesn't mean they are being reasonable.

homer_j_3

Im not disagreeing with the fact that they may be a final profit making charge but you can only say that they are unlawful if they are making a penalty charge for you breaching your contract.

You are not breaching the contract you are simply ending it. If you could argue this as a reclaimable charge in the same method as bank charges then you could go to the extent of duplicate statement fees, ERC's, survey fees, TT fees etc. These are not reclaimable as they are not seen as penalty clauses in the eyes of the law.

lisyloo

but you can only say that they are unlawful if they are making a penalty charge for you breaching your contract

I think we are in agreement with that.

However it doesn't mean that there isn't a case to answer where fees are high.
It's just not on the same basis as an "unfair penalty".

payless

suppose what would be fair would be for new customers to be told the fee upfront, and for this to stay stable or interest by a stated formulae ( RPI ?)

not sure if they would be willing to apply to older accounts

peppermintpaddy

thanks to all for advice etc...

homer_j_3

lisyloo wrote:

I think we are in agreement with that.

However it doesn't mean that there isn't a case to answer where fees are high.
It's just not on the same basis as an "unfair penalty".

The question was though, could the OP claim in the same way as people have for their bank charges and the answer is no.

Yes, I believe that some fees are high but the FSA state that these fees must be in line with their competitor, which could open up a case for price fixing maybe?

In response to payless, it is to my understanding that one lender has already publically said that they will honour the fee that was quoted at the time of starting the mortgage. I think that it should be the case for every lender.

Having managed a department that deals with the closing of mortgages, I know it doesnt cost the prices these companies charge.

lisyloo

Having managed a department that deals with the closing of mortgages, I know it doesnt cost the prices these companies charge.

I don't have to work for them to know that it's doesn't cost £295 to put something in an envelope and press a button on the computer to say "closed" :-))

I'm happy as mine were waived completely which is more than I wanted.