Double the fun - Part 2

Yorksman_2

As mentioned, part 2 refers to my issue with CSA which at this stage is stretching patience and sanity to the limit. I shall try and keep this one a little more brief than the previous one because at the end of the day, I feel that is the more important issue since it involves the children.

3 months ago I found my payslip drastically reduced and on investigation it was a massive arrears deduction from CSA. I have 2 children to 2 different PWC's and have always paid to support my children. A few years ago PWC 1 on hearing how much a friend of hers was getting through CSA decided she wanted more from me. As I was living with PWC 2 at the time and had 3 children to support also I felt what I was paying was a fair reflection. Needless to say, I got the brown envelope, filled it in and sent it back. Not sure if I was more shocked or PWC 1 because I had been paying much more than I should but as it was my daughter I was supporting that was no issue. PWC 1 promptly closed the case and we went back to a private arrangement. Instead, this time I adjusted the money to match CSA and anything over was put to one side for when my daughter stayed over so we could take all the children out and treat them.

When I changed job, I called CSA again and had a rough assessment done over the phone in order to keep in line should my ex ever decide to go back down that route. I saw my daughter regularly and kept payments going every month, anything in excess I would spend solely on my daughter as I knew my money was being used on her.

As I mentioned on part 1, myself and PWC 2 separated 18 months ago and I rang CSA to do an assessment over the phone for the 2 children. They gave me a figure but I did not adjust the money immediately. Instead I gave PWC 1 warning that this was going to happen but I would continue with the payments as they were for 3 months to allow her time to adjust.

She wasn't happy with this and as a result, contact with my daughter got less and less. Weekends I should have been seeing my daughter, I was contacted an hour before I set off, sometimes while I was on my way (150 mile round trip) to say I wouldn't be having her because she was going to a party and if I didn't allow her to go then she would lose out next time people sent out invites and if I wanted to upset her then I obviously didn't care.

I sought a solicitors advice about applying for a contact order and it was agreed that my solicitor would try and work things out by letter first rather than the undue stress of going to court. I was happy with this as it didn't add any pressure on my daughter. It appeared things did get sorted out and despite the fact PWC 1 still refused to share any of the travelling, thought it best that I only see my daughter once a month instead of twice to help cut the costs. I wasn't too happy with that but my solicitor convinced me that it would be a good start to building things back up.

Needless to say, things went the other way and soon I was being told by my ex that the weekends I could have my daughter were no good as it co-incided with things they planned but had forgot to mention when I made arrangements. I still had regular contact with my daughter by phone 5 or 6 times a week and soon my ex was suggesting I come through and spend a couple of hours with my daughter rather than have her for a weekend. It was having a serious effect on my daughter but there appears to be very little I could do. One time, she burst into tears on the phone and told me she was being bullied at school. I arranged an appointment with the headmistress and drove the 80 miles for the 10 minute meeting. My ex, who lived around the corner, never bothered to show as she was busy at a car showroom, looking for a new car.

I dropped the money down to the amount calculated by CSA and apart from the contact with my daughter on the phone and when she came to stay at my mum's I have seen less and less of her. PWC 2 is a different situation altogether. We both share my youngest and as I live around the corner see her almost everyday and she stays with me 3 or 4 days a week. As far as maintenance, PWC 2 has never wanted anything from me but out of fairness, what I give to one I give to the other and treat all 4 children equally in terms of quality time.

Back to a few months ago and the DEO removed from my pay. It turns out at the time of seeing the solicitor last year, my ex decided to "get her own back" by going through CSA. Not an issue I thought but could not understand the arrears as everything had been kept in check. It turns out this is where the system fails, and fails badly. First of all, my ex told CSA I never paid anything towards my daughter and that was taken at face value. When I spoke to CSA with regards this and told them I have bank statements that prove the opposite they still insisted that PWC 1's word carried more weight and that was an issue I would have to sort out myself. I did contact PWC 1 and told her that if she did not tell the truth, I would have no option but to put in a claim against her in the courts. Fortunately she did contact CSA and that money was deducted.

When I asked CSA why I had not had any contact for a whole year that was because they were writing to the wrong address. Despite the fact PWC 1 had the correct address she gave them the wrong information. However, the worst was yet to come. The arrears they said I owed, they still maintain I owe them. The reason is that they say they cannot take my youngest daughter into account on the calculation because PWC 2 did not have a case against me through them and therefore as far as they are concerned does not feature in the equation.

This means that for the past year, I have been treating both my children equally but because one parent wasn't so callous, they can't factor in the fact that I have 2 qualifying children because both of them are not on their system. As a result, PWC 2 is devastated because she has now had to put a claim in against me just so all my money doesn't go for one child. I can understand how PWC 2's children wouldn't factor into this though I have been their support too both emotionally and financially since CSA have struggled with her ex. They now miss out on that too, so essentially I do turn my back on the 2 boys because that counts fo nothing.

Like I say, during the entire period of the calculation there were 2 qualifying children but CSA state they will only recognise one of them so in effect I end up paying twice. I end up with arrears on a single claim, despite the fact I based my money around what they suggested. I end up with arrears despite the fact their own site states direct payment is the easiest and best solution. The system is severely flawed as I can prove I was was no longer living at my old address 7 months prior to PWC 1 contacting CSA.

As a result, it has ruined Xmas for 4 children. I am getting nasty texts from my ex telling me that she now has proof I didn't care enough about my daughter because I never paid her enough and worst of all the phone contact with my daughter has stopped as a result. My mum is having my daughter over at Xmas but my ex has told her that under no circumstances is she to let me see my daughter and if she does, then she will stop my mum from seeing her too. My mum is in a state over the whole thing because she knows how much my daughter wants to see me.

All I want to do is put this right but CSA are refusing to even examine it. The damage it has caused one family because someone did the right thing by their children is unbelievable but I really don't know which way to turn to resolve this issue. Please can someone offer some advice on what I can do to rectify the problem with CSA because that will at least give me some footing towards a relationship with my daughter again.

It just seems, the nasty get rewarded, the honest get punished and the CSA get a bonus for making it all happen.

Thanks again for listening

elaina79

I didn't want to read and run. I have never been in this situation so the only help I can really offer is writing a formal letter of complaint to someone as high as possible at the CSA. They shouldn't be allowed to do this. I hope someone comes along soon with some better advise but in the mean time, I wish you all the luck.

shell_542

Could you get in contact with NACSA? Google them. They charge a fee to join but can assist people with disputes with the CSA.

As for the unfairness of the system, I know its no help at all, but you have my sympathy. I'm glad you were able to prove those payments you made directly. Some NRPs posting on here were not so fortunate and ended up paying them again.

13Kent

Sorry can't help - our experience was the same - the PWC telling the CSA that my OH hadn't paid towards his children when he had paid regularly and also paid the mortgage when they first split up, other bills such as tv licence, insurance, and also a large loan in joint names.

The CSA took the PWC's word for it. The only thing we managed to get back was half the insurance that had been paid as we produced insurance documents as proof in his name, and the CSA had to get her to agree to that before they would accept it, and we ended up with loads of arrears.

Sadly I'm afraid she's got you over a barrel as it were!

13Kent

We tried speaking to our MP, not to mention a load of other things, but nothing changed. We are hoping we are on the downhill run now as the children are getting older.....

heather_p03

Try contacting the Child Support Guidance. They provide free telephone advice which you may find useful.

http://www.childsupportguidance.co.uk/index.php

Yorksman_2

Thanks for the advice guys, though it does appear to be much a lost cause moment right now.

Elaina79, I got the ball rolling when it first happened by writing directly to the Chief Exec of the CSA but only recieved a looking into the complaint letter.

I have got my MP involved but like in your case 13kent, very little is being done there. It's sad really as my MP is the SofS for Children, Schools and Families but as his wife is the SofS for DWP it appears there may be a conflict of interest.

What I have had back from CSA is a copy of the regulations and a letter explaining the reasons why they cannot backdate PWC 2's claim to the same time as PWC 1. This was never asked for in the first place so it appears the actual issue is still being elusive.

The issue was, and has always been that when doing the calculation they factored in one qualifying child when during that period, there were infact 2 qualifying children. All that was expected was that the calculation would be done again based on this information even if the money was for just one PWC since PWC 2 wanted to remain away from CSA after all the issues had in part 1.

What compounds the situation even further is that PWC 1 is actually a maths teacher and she cannot see that due to the events that have occurred someone has missed out. Her response is that my youngest child is not her responsibility and wanted nothing to do with her. She is right in that sense, but in the same respect, if I do not acknowledge she has another child to take care of with her current partner then I am being the one who is insensitive as her other child is my daughters brother.

I have never felt so let down by anything in my life. I served my country in the army for 6 years, fought in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan and had I known this is what I was fighting for, I may well have joined the other side. Please don't get me wrong, I do not feel there is no place for an Agency like CSA based on the situation of PWC 2, but I do feel that an agency with common sense would be a much more straight forward approach.

There are people like myself who have always done the best for their children, have never done anything wrong or shied away from responsibility that get punished for doing just that while many out there that do shy away or use the CSA as a weapon for getting what they want, get rewarded. We are fast becoming the laughing stock of the world, even corrupt 3rd world countries are less corrupt than ours and the honest people amongst us don't have any backup whatsoever when the system fails.

Sorry, rant over. I'm just physically and emotionally run down right now with everything and just feel badly let down by the people I once fought to protect.

LizzieS_2

Yorksman wrote: »

A few years ago PWC 1 on hearing how much a friend of hers was getting through CSA decided she wanted more from me. As I was living with PWC 2 at the time and had 3 children to support also I felt what I was paying was a fair reflection. Needless to say, I got the brown envelope, filled it in and sent it back. Not sure if I was more shocked or PWC 1 because I had been paying much more than I should but as it was my daughter I was supporting that was no issue. PWC 1 promptly closed the case and we went back to a private arrangement. Instead, this time I adjusted the money to match CSA and anything over was put to one side for when my daughter stayed over so we could take all the children out and treat them.

If she had closed the case, the later contact she had with the csa would have been a new case - arrears could only accrue from the point of the csa contacting you.

It appears she simply changed it to maintenance direct as that allows her to go back at any time to ask them to collect.

Assuming the last paragraph is correct, then yes the csa are right in their calculation as they can only take into account children claimed via themselves.