Pensions Planning: The NUMBER

bendix

property.advert wrote: »

Booze and birds kills Thai budgets. Add the cost of property to that and I think you would see over 10% inflation going back the years you mention. In any case, I would be more concerned with GBP/THB numbers which as you know are shocking, even for those who thought 60 was a baseline they would never need to approach.

I know street food is cheap and hasn't doubled in that time but it has gone up. Fuel has doubled and more.

I also know some who live on 60k or thereabouts. I couldn't and wouldn't. Your circa 200k is a great number I concede but you may need more than than for security if the !!!!!! really hits the fans and the wheels come off the cart.

Well, for a start I'm married so 'birds' isn't an issue for me, and as for booze? A couple of quiet ones twice a week satisfies me. And I already own property over there outright, so that's not an issue either.

I hear what you're saying about GBP/THB but - frankly - only a relatively small proportion of my funds will be in GBP, and what better time to build UK funds than when sterling is weak against the Baht?

Don't worry about me, pal. I got all my bases covered. I'm not going to be in poverty - I'm budgeting on having in Thailand two or three times what most Brits will have in the UK to retire on.

MS_Dolphin

Sawasdee krap khun Bendix

I'm also planning on 'retiring' to Thailand - or at the very least splitting it three months Thai - three months UK.

Although my plan is to have more, I could live very comfortably on 50-60k baht a month. The issue to remember here is that if I only have income of £1,000p.m, where do you think I'm going to have the better standard of living - Thailand or the UK?

For what I pay in council tax, gas, electric and water bills, TV licence and phone bills, I can live off this in Thailand.

I've spent a considerable amount of time there and I know in retirement I'll live a far healthier and more comfortable lifestyle than I ever could here.

Inflation is rising and as Property Advert rightly states, the price of fuel has soared and the value of the pound versus the baht is also a problem but costs are still significantly lower than over here.

I love the Thai food, shop at the Thai markets and eat the street food.

So, if I knew where Walking St is, I might be able to meet you there in a few years time - but as I don't, we'll just have to stick to MSE :rotfl:

bendix

One of the biggest issues re retiring in Thailand (or anywhere in Asia) is exactly what you are talking about Dolphin. A meagre income which will leave you marginalised and poor in the UK, will give you a very comfortable existance over there, with no real hardships.

£1000 a month is doable. It really depends how and where you want to live. Will it get you a luxury house in Sukhumvit, and five star dining every night? No, of course not.

But even on an exchange rate of 50k a month you could rent a very nice apartment or villa in Chiang Mai (and a mansion in places like Udon Thani, Ubon or Khon Kaen, all of which are gettign more popular with westerners), live very well indeed, including running a car, evenings out and having all the western comforts like highspeed internet, satellite tv etc.

Who wouldn't want that?

I am 45. The idea of working another twenty years to eke out an existance as an OAP in the UK is abhorrent to me. Instead, I'll be there by 50, without a care in the world.

One thought re baht exchange rates. It's currently around 47 to the pound, a combination of a weak pound and an unrealistically high baht. Once UK public finances start to be fixed and - I hate to say this, but it's true - as the Thai political situation is exacerbated when the King eventually dies, the baht will weaken significantly and head back to what I think is more like fair value at around 60.

MS_Dolphin

Be careful you don't fall foul of lese majeste laws Bendix :eek:

You do though make a good point - although trying to predict the notoriously unpredictable Thai's in any situation, never mind something as volatile as this, would take a wiser man than me.

I'm fortunate in that I have income generated in Thailand, so this hedges against the exchange rate and I've already got property, so £1,000p,m would be comfortable for me.

Whilst I've spent time in all the places you mentioned and they are growing more popular, I don't particularly want to spend my time in Khon Kaen, but want to be able to sit on a beach every day if I choose.

I'm fortunate in that I'll have more than £1,000 but I could do it comfortably. Like yourself, Bendix, I'm married so the booze and birds bit isn't going to tax my income and I don't have a great desire to regularly shop at retail and food outlets targeting ex-pats and tourists, so I think I'll be fine.

I'm looking forward to it. I'm a couple of years younger than you and looking to retire in about 8-9 years time - just waiting for the kids to decide they don't want to hang around with the old man anymore!!

I'm not slagging off the UK, nor looking at Thailand through rose coloured glasses because there are wider issues that aren't really for debate on this thread - but my heart goes out to those pensioners I see here that are really struggling with no means of changing the situation. I know that for me, there is a very attractive and realistic alternative - and back to 'the number', it needs to be far lower in Thailand than it does in the UK.

bendix

Nothing wrong with Khon Kaen, mate, although I hear you about the beach thing. That's why my future is in Hua Hin.

Paradise, here I come!

jamesd

bendix, living on £1k a month here without being in poverty is easy enough, I did it, paying rent as well as the usual other bills. Not forced to, I'm just saving hard. Not possible in all parts of the country, though.

bendix

I'm not suggesting it's impossible to do here, jamesd. But living on that money short-term and RETIRING on that money is two different propositions, with - hopefully - 20-25 years of retirement to look forward to.

As you yourself would know well, one of the challenges in retirement is ensuring your pot of gold keeps growing so that its return can keep up with inflation.

Similarly, living on that amount 'between jobs' or while you 'take a break' knowing you can boost your income when you want, is a very different dynamic to coming up with a figure, realising that is your income for the next 25 years, and watching it get eroded year in year out.

ERICS_MUM

I've been offered a job on Patpong Rd - will I be able to live comfortably on the "salary" ?? :rotfl::rotfl:

property.advert

I considered Hua Hin and may do so again now they have sorted out the highway but it doesn't "grab" me as much of the other places I like. That said, I have spent time in places where I love, as a holiday, but where I could not realistically think about living permanently. Some of them have already gone to pot as Samui did, Krabi being one such place. The north does nothing for me and I could never live in Bangkok.

On numbers, you only have to read some of the other forums to see how many people are finding problems with their retirement budgets now the GBP has fallen so far. Most of these never knew GBP/THB rates at pre 1997 levels and even most of the sensible ones have made budgets based on 60. God only knows what the mid 2000's newcomers who thought 70 and above was a great budgeting number are going to do !

The numbers Bendix posted are great, even luxurious living figures today but so was Bt100k only a few years ago. Pull up some old forecasts and you have people who now say 100k a month for viable living talking about half that. Not decades ago but perhaps 5 or 6 years. Insulation against rental prices has swung around from renting being the better option to ownership being the more sensible route. Forget capital appreciation as you are unlikely, if retired, to ever see any of the capital growth from trading down your property but the fact that you do not have to pay rent is a primary concern in retirement. I never cease to be amazed by those who advocate renting.

At least those with Thai connections here are much more sensible than those on other boards where desperation drives the poor and deluded to try and eke out their remaining days, which could be decades, in a third world country where there are no safety nets in terms of government assistance. Can you imagine if they said in the UK that you could waive rights to the NHS for a few gold baubles ? Madness, but people do in Thailand and cannot afford medical insurance. My prediction is that the next decade will see thousands of retirees doing the Pattaya condo flop as their meagre pension amounts dwindle.

I thought the change in monarchy could signal a turbulent period and it might go against the farang residents as nationalism rose but with tanks on the streets of Bangkok as I write this, the passing of the king could well be an underwhelming event.

If I retire there, my "pot" will need to be large enough and with enough growth sufficient for me to go and live anywhere. The choice of Thailand will not be made on economic grounds.

property.advert

ERICS_MUM wrote: »

I've been offered a job on Patpong Rd - will I be able to live comfortably on the "salary" ?? :rotfl::rotfl:

Depends whether PP1 or PP2 ?

I hear salaries are quite modest but that fringe benefits can be considerable. Some even require medical attention :rotfl: