Pensions Planning: The NUMBER

expectingtofly

michaels said:

expectingtofly said:

michaels said:

AlanP_2 said:

People don't compare themselves to some unknown, statistical average person identified within government statistics, they relate and compare to their known peers.

That may be neighbours, family, friends, work colleagues, acquaintances.

A classic example was that guy on Question Time just before the last election who claimed his £80k salary was "average". It probably was among his peers but certainly wasn't when compared to UK statistical average.

The post /amounts being discussed don't sound lavish to me as our number is higher, with a different spread across categories, to others (perfectly reasonably) it seems lavish.

I think unless we can recognise the lived experience of our fellow citizens then it is hard to have empathy.  Failing to recognise that 37k pa is actually comfortably above average does mean that perhaps we will make the wrong choices when assessing for example what help people might need to meet rising fuel bills.

I'm not sure if I agree with your interpretation of what I was saying,  but I was saying 37k is the lifestyle we personally are comfortable at and we naturally fit into, and so is our actual lived "number".   Many people have a higher one (reading this thread tells us that)
I absolutely know that it is above the average household income, and I am fully engaged with the lived experience of my fellow citizens (and my family!).  The imbalance of how the working young (student loans, NI, house prices) are treated compared with the older and comfortably well off is one of the political time bombs that is going to go off at some point, IMHO.

Apologies, I think several of us have read much too much into the word 'lavish' in your original (and very helpful) post.

No worries, a poor choice of word from me, I suspect.   Maybe I should have said we don't have a 'frivolous' lifestyle, instead.

Interestingly, we feel very lucky and don't want for any more, but our "NUMBER" is much closer to the middle "moderate" living standard than the 50K "comfortable" living standards that have been defined by the academic research from the PLSA (Loughborough university)

westv

billy2shots said:

pensionpawn said:

hugheskevi said:

pensionpawn said:

I'm having difficulty balancing "don't have a lavish lifestyle" with £37k retirement income! The median UK household income in the UK in 2021 was £28K (ONS).

Deducting the £2,387.15 of (unspecified) taxes from the gross figure leaves net income of £34,688.52.

The Pensioner Income Series shows that pensioner couples under 75 have a median net income of almost £30,000. However, that was prior to the recent inflation, so adjusting by 11.64% based on CPI growth since October 2020 (as Pensioner Income Series figures are from 2020/21) gives £33,500

Take into account a bit of regional variation, and a net income of £34,688.52 for a retired couple looks fairly typical. The days of the average pensioner household being poor are long gone.

£37k is their net figure, from the text above their numerical breakdown. The most that my wife and I have ever earned net combined is £47k! The point I was making is that the figure of £37k (net) is considerably more than what most couples are bringing home in the UK, and would probably be considered by those on these average incomes as 'lavish'. This is in no way a criticism of the posters desired level of retirement income. They probably had an even higher combined net salary when working. However I would wager that the majority of those who post on this forum are not on or under the average UK salary.

Again, not being disrespectful to the forum member but I personally would find over £200 a week on food for a couple 'lavish'. Add in £3500 on gifts and it's getting close to the idea of that lavish description in a lot of peoples books. 

£200 a week isn't that lavish if it includes meals out.

Dansmam

expectingtofly said:

michaels said:

expectingtofly said:

michaels said:

AlanP_2 said:

People don't compare themselves to some unknown, statistical average person identified within government statistics, they relate and compare to their known peers.

That may be neighbours, family, friends, work colleagues, acquaintances.

A classic example was that guy on Question Time just before the last election who claimed his £80k salary was "average". It probably was among his peers but certainly wasn't when compared to UK statistical average.

The post /amounts being discussed don't sound lavish to me as our number is higher, with a different spread across categories, to others (perfectly reasonably) it seems lavish.

I think unless we can recognise the lived experience of our fellow citizens then it is hard to have empathy.  Failing to recognise that 37k pa is actually comfortably above average does mean that perhaps we will make the wrong choices when assessing for example what help people might need to meet rising fuel bills.

I'm not sure if I agree with your interpretation of what I was saying,  but I was saying 37k is the lifestyle we personally are comfortable at and we naturally fit into, and so is our actual lived "number".   Many people have a higher one (reading this thread tells us that)
I absolutely know that it is above the average household income, and I am fully engaged with the lived experience of my fellow citizens (and my family!).  The imbalance of how the working young (student loans, NI, house prices) are treated compared with the older and comfortably well off is one of the political time bombs that is going to go off at some point, IMHO.

Apologies, I think several of us have read much too much into the word 'lavish' in your original (and very helpful) post.

No worries, a poor choice of word from me, I suspect.   Maybe I should have said we don't have a 'frivolous' lifestyle, instead.

Interestingly, we feel very lucky and don't want for any more, but our "NUMBER" is much closer to the middle "moderate" living standard than the 50K "comfortable" living standards that have been defined by the academic research from the PLSA (Loughborough university)

The risk of posting is that other people don't understand you or where you've been or where you to be . So I risk posting this with a 🙏

billy2shots

westv said:

billy2shots said:

pensionpawn said:

hugheskevi said:

pensionpawn said:

I'm having difficulty balancing "don't have a lavish lifestyle" with £37k retirement income! The median UK household income in the UK in 2021 was £28K (ONS).

Deducting the £2,387.15 of (unspecified) taxes from the gross figure leaves net income of £34,688.52.

The Pensioner Income Series shows that pensioner couples under 75 have a median net income of almost £30,000. However, that was prior to the recent inflation, so adjusting by 11.64% based on CPI growth since October 2020 (as Pensioner Income Series figures are from 2020/21) gives £33,500

Take into account a bit of regional variation, and a net income of £34,688.52 for a retired couple looks fairly typical. The days of the average pensioner household being poor are long gone.

£37k is their net figure, from the text above their numerical breakdown. The most that my wife and I have ever earned net combined is £47k! The point I was making is that the figure of £37k (net) is considerably more than what most couples are bringing home in the UK, and would probably be considered by those on these average incomes as 'lavish'. This is in no way a criticism of the posters desired level of retirement income. They probably had an even higher combined net salary when working. However I would wager that the majority of those who post on this forum are not on or under the average UK salary.

Again, not being disrespectful to the forum member but I personally would find over £200 a week on food for a couple 'lavish'. Add in £3500 on gifts and it's getting close to the idea of that lavish description in a lot of peoples books. 

£200 a week isn't that lavish if it includes meals out.

However weekly/regular meals out in itself could feel lavish to some. 

Not saying it's right, but my family and I probably eat out 5 times a year. 

As pointed out earlier in this topic, one might spend a lot in some areas but spend far less in others so the Total Number is probably a better way to determine -

Below average 
Average
Comfortable
Lavish 


Personally, and this is completely the wrong thread for this (belongs in FIRE)
I have just started to earn very good money. 
My plan is to be FI in 2 years (42) then do something that I enjoy/find rewarding/ gives back. 

My FI number is £30k per year. If my sideline produces £5k/£10k on top of that, I would be very happy. 

I could work another 5 years and push my FI number to £40k but when I'm on my death bed, how much would I give for 5 more years in my prime?

pensionpawn

billy2shots said:

westv said:

billy2shots said:

pensionpawn said:

hugheskevi said:

pensionpawn said:

I'm having difficulty balancing "don't have a lavish lifestyle" with £37k retirement income! The median UK household income in the UK in 2021 was £28K (ONS).

Deducting the £2,387.15 of (unspecified) taxes from the gross figure leaves net income of £34,688.52.

The Pensioner Income Series shows that pensioner couples under 75 have a median net income of almost £30,000. However, that was prior to the recent inflation, so adjusting by 11.64% based on CPI growth since October 2020 (as Pensioner Income Series figures are from 2020/21) gives £33,500

Take into account a bit of regional variation, and a net income of £34,688.52 for a retired couple looks fairly typical. The days of the average pensioner household being poor are long gone.

£37k is their net figure, from the text above their numerical breakdown. The most that my wife and I have ever earned net combined is £47k! The point I was making is that the figure of £37k (net) is considerably more than what most couples are bringing home in the UK, and would probably be considered by those on these average incomes as 'lavish'. This is in no way a criticism of the posters desired level of retirement income. They probably had an even higher combined net salary when working. However I would wager that the majority of those who post on this forum are not on or under the average UK salary.

Again, not being disrespectful to the forum member but I personally would find over £200 a week on food for a couple 'lavish'. Add in £3500 on gifts and it's getting close to the idea of that lavish description in a lot of peoples books. 

£200 a week isn't that lavish if it includes meals out.

However weekly/regular meals out in itself could feel lavish to some. 

Not saying it's right, but my family and I probably eat out 5 times a year. 

As pointed out earlier in this topic, one might spend a lot in some areas but spend far less in others so the Total Number is probably a better way to determine -

Below average 
Average
Comfortable
Lavish 


Personally, and this is completely the wrong thread for this (belongs in FIRE)
I have just started to earn very good money. 
My plan is to be FI in 2 years (42) then do something that I enjoy/find rewarding/ gives back. 

My FI number is £30k per year. If my sideline produces £5k/£10k on top of that, I would be very happy. 

I could work another 5 years and push my FI number to £40k but when I'm on my death bed, how much would I give for 5 more years in my prime?

...and he hits the nail directly on the head! The best retirement years are at the very beginning. My father said he came into the money too old to enjoy it. I see my older brother start to grind to a halt / start losing his marbles 11 years after retiring. Since turning 50 the wheels are slowly and surely starting to fall off the bus. I've started partial retirement at 56 and am thoroughly enjoying it. Since gaining access to my pots on turning 55 the pressure is off and I've made sure my manager knows that I now only turn up at work because it suits me. We don't have anything like the size pots that some have on this forum however it's good enough for us as we don't intend being the richest people in the graveyard! It's a fine balancing act across your whole working / family act, however it's not the rehearsal so plan it well, you can't change your mind.

elantan

westv said:

billy2shots said:

pensionpawn said:

hugheskevi said:

pensionpawn said:

I'm having difficulty balancing "don't have a lavish lifestyle" with £37k retirement income! The median UK household income in the UK in 2021 was £28K (ONS).

Deducting the £2,387.15 of (unspecified) taxes from the gross figure leaves net income of £34,688.52.

The Pensioner Income Series shows that pensioner couples under 75 have a median net income of almost £30,000. However, that was prior to the recent inflation, so adjusting by 11.64% based on CPI growth since October 2020 (as Pensioner Income Series figures are from 2020/21) gives £33,500

Take into account a bit of regional variation, and a net income of £34,688.52 for a retired couple looks fairly typical. The days of the average pensioner household being poor are long gone.

£37k is their net figure, from the text above their numerical breakdown. The most that my wife and I have ever earned net combined is £47k! The point I was making is that the figure of £37k (net) is considerably more than what most couples are bringing home in the UK, and would probably be considered by those on these average incomes as 'lavish'. This is in no way a criticism of the posters desired level of retirement income. They probably had an even higher combined net salary when working. However I would wager that the majority of those who post on this forum are not on or under the average UK salary.

Again, not being disrespectful to the forum member but I personally would find over £200 a week on food for a couple 'lavish'. Add in £3500 on gifts and it's getting close to the idea of that lavish description in a lot of peoples books. 

£200 a week isn't that lavish if it includes meals out.

I totally agree     200 on meals out and food shopping isnt extravagant at all imo

billy2shots

elantan said:

westv said:

billy2shots said:

pensionpawn said:

hugheskevi said:

pensionpawn said:

I'm having difficulty balancing "don't have a lavish lifestyle" with £37k retirement income! The median UK household income in the UK in 2021 was £28K (ONS).

Deducting the £2,387.15 of (unspecified) taxes from the gross figure leaves net income of £34,688.52.

The Pensioner Income Series shows that pensioner couples under 75 have a median net income of almost £30,000. However, that was prior to the recent inflation, so adjusting by 11.64% based on CPI growth since October 2020 (as Pensioner Income Series figures are from 2020/21) gives £33,500

Take into account a bit of regional variation, and a net income of £34,688.52 for a retired couple looks fairly typical. The days of the average pensioner household being poor are long gone.

£37k is their net figure, from the text above their numerical breakdown. The most that my wife and I have ever earned net combined is £47k! The point I was making is that the figure of £37k (net) is considerably more than what most couples are bringing home in the UK, and would probably be considered by those on these average incomes as 'lavish'. This is in no way a criticism of the posters desired level of retirement income. They probably had an even higher combined net salary when working. However I would wager that the majority of those who post on this forum are not on or under the average UK salary.

Again, not being disrespectful to the forum member but I personally would find over £200 a week on food for a couple 'lavish'. Add in £3500 on gifts and it's getting close to the idea of that lavish description in a lot of peoples books. 

£200 a week isn't that lavish if it includes meals out.

I totally agree     200 on meals out and food shopping isnt extravagant at all imo

It would be really interesting to know the split on who thinks £200 a week on  food for a couple is a bit lavish  or not compared to whether the person has a DB pension Vs DC pension. 

I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever but I would bet more people with a DB pension would find this normal compared to those of us who have DC pensions. Complete guess mind you. 

elantan

my husbands DB pension ain't worth much, we intend on cashing it in shortly, his other DB pension we cashed in already, 

we have 2 DC pensions and 1 DB pension between us 

we spent on average £803 a month on shopping, take away, eating out and alcohol last year, we expect to spend more per month this year, we are both still working though which does make a difference. 

Goodness knows how we will be able to cut back when we retire as we do enjoy our food, but cut back we will need to if we want to retire earlier. 

Having been keeping note of our expenses for 3 full years so far 

Secret2ndAccount

Post deleted. Poster was talking rubbish

westv

It's £200 a week, not a month.