Employment agencies and proof of ID

computershack

wontfallforit wrote: »

Considering that more than 25 different EU nationalities are able to work in the UK without restriction, how are agency staff supposed to establish whether or not a Spanish, Italian, French, etc. passport is genuine?

They are not. What they are expected to do is to take all precautions as much as is reasonably possible. The fact they would have a photocopy of the "fake" would satisfy HO that they had made the check.

liney

The documents are copied to provide a "defense", if a person is found to be working illegally but the employer has a copy of the document that looks genuine they are in the clear.

If the copy they have is obviously fake, like has spelling mistakes, incorrect fonts, inaccurate personal details etc, the employer is expected to have spotted these and would be fined.

There are example visas and other documents on the Home Office website that we use in "Prevention of Illegal working" training with staff. Employers are not expected to be forgery experts, but they are expected to demonstrate a level of common sense.

BonandDom

sexki11en wrote: »

Not only the fines now, if we are found to be employing illegals and have no proof we checked their ID, it can also now mean a prison sentence.

Sorry sunshine, but i'm not going to prison because you won't provide what the law states you should to prove you have the right to work.

Direct employers should also carry out these checks btw, it's just that most don't bother.

SK x

Hi Sk,

I'm not your sunshine btw:D. It was a simple query, I never said I would not provide what the law wants -I obliged but at a cost to me when I could not afford it - food on the table now for DD or maybe food on the table in 2/3 weeks for DD if an agency found me a job.

I found myself in a position, having trusted my employer, and being prudent with my pennies, when at the 2nd pay day when I was asked "Could you wait a while for your pay, we are struggling with cashflow" I took the descion to say "No, sorry mate I can't - or words to that effect".

And to top that I discovered that agencies "often" advertise false job to get people on thier books - and please, rest ensured, I was an employable person, legal, with lots of usuable skills, experiences and behaviours that could be transferred to other positions.

I was lucky, but I understand that some people may not be, what if they just do not have the £10.00 for a birth certificate? Or more for a passport? And have to wait more than the day or two I did?


But, thank you for your response anyway:o

liney

BonandDom: You would have needed the certificate to provide to any potential employer, not just an agency. Whilst i understand it was difficult to afford the item, you (should) not be able to start any job without said item.

CCFC_80

liney wrote: »

The documents are copied to provide a "defense", if a person is found to be working illegally but the employer has a copy of the document that looks genuine they are in the clear.

If the copy they have is obviously fake, like has spelling mistakes, incorrect fonts, inaccurate personal details etc, the employer is expected to have spotted these and would be fined.

There are example visas and other documents on the Home Office website that we use in "Prevention of Illegal working" training with staff. Employers are not expected to be forgery experts, but they are expected to demonstrate a level of common sense.

Okay, but it does seem strange why they insist on actually seeing your passport and not accepting a very good and clear scanned copy emailed to them.This is why I asked if they have any training to recognise a genuine or fake passport,

liney

andy46 wrote: »

Okay, but it does seem strange why they insist on actually seeing your passport and not accepting a very good and clear scanned copy emailed to them.This is why I asked if they have any training to recognise a genuine or fake passport,

Because they wouldn't be able to see any physical evidence of tampering, like a stanley blade used to remove and replace a photo. Also the HO do state the origional must be seen.

robredz

One of the new fangled ID Cards will be of no use either as they will want a passport as well, you need a passport before you can get an ID card according to the proofs required for the Manchester pilot many UK nationals will be condemned to the dole as the proof for claiming is lower, I was asked for a certificate of naturalisation by one employer, due to no current passport (too costly to renew at present) as a Welshman I was mightily offended, as my NINO, birth cert, checkable work history, school reports references et.al are insufficient to prove right to work in the country of my birth. So If I went to an agency for work I would be snookered as well.

CCFC_80

liney wrote: »

Because they wouldn't be able to see any physical evidence of tampering, like a stanley blade used to remove and replace a photo. Also the HO do state the origional must be seen.

Sorry to be a bit pedantic but this contradicts your earlier statement that The employers are not surposed to be forgery experts. Some peoples passports can be in a very poor state due to not being replaced every 10 years. So then from what you are saying the employers might be able to spot a tampered photo but nothing else to suggest a passport might be forged !!!!

liney

andy46 wrote: »

Sorry to be a bit pedantic but this contradicts your earlier statement that The employers are not surposed to be forgery experts. Some peoples passports can be in a very poor state due to not being replaced every 10 years. So then from what you are saying the employers might be able to spot a tampered photo but nothing else to suggest a passport might be forged !!!!

I think seeing that a passport has been cut with a Stanley knife would come under "But they are expected to demonstrate a level of of common sense", and not mistaking wear and tear for tampering.

The list of acceptable documents is easily found on the Border Agency Website. There are many other documents that a potential employee can provide, although a UK citizen is unlikely to hold any other than the Passport, BC/NI combo.