Banker's exodus possible - does anyone care?

carolt

Afriend wrote: »

I should warn you that this is THE PPR board.
Tis possible to get banned for calling someone stupid here.

No it's not.

Who's ever been PPR'ed for that?

It is rude, though.

carolt

Not you and all.

So who's been PPR'ed for that, then?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Britain’s financiers and entrepreneurs are quitting the UK at a rate of 10 a week to avoid Labour’s new 50% taxes.

The burgeoning exodus threatens to deepen a £178 billion black hole in the public finances and leave middle-class voters with higher taxes for years to come, figures obtained from Companies House reveal.

The number of directors of British businesses registered as living in the low-tax centres of Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man has risen by almost 500 to 6,729 in the past 12 months.

The British Virgin Islands is also a popular destination, with 615 directors of UK companies now based in the Caribbean tax haven — an 18% rise on a year ago.


Those known to be fleeing the UK include hedge fund managers, property tycoons, bankers and people who made their money setting up companies organising private healthcare, call centres and luxury holidays.

“The UK model is broken,” said Stephen Hedgecock, a partner in Altis, a £1 billion hedge fund company with 35 staff that has relocated to Jersey, leaving only a small presence in London.

“It’s not just the 50% rate — it’s National Insurance, the treatment of pensions ... everything. It’s just a ridiculous amount of taxation.”
Russell Newton and Danny Masters, co-founders of Global Advisors, another hedge fund with hundreds of millions of dollars under management, also abandoned London for Jersey’s thriving finance community in the summer.

Another 100 Britons have begun working in the island’s businesses since the downturn began two years ago. The Jersey government said it had seen a 20% increase in interest from people looking at moving to the island. A new marketing brochure published by the island’s authorities promises “in Jersey, keep more of what you earn”.

The authorities impose corporation tax at 10% and income tax at 20%. There is no inheritance tax or capital gains tax. Property taxes are also low.

Jersey Finance, an agency set up to attract financial talent to the island, has held a series of private dinners in London to woo new residents. Geoff Cook, the agency’s chief executive, said: “The 50% tax rate does seem to have been the tipping point for many people.” However, the island’s authorities maintain that the rich often favour Jersey because of the easy access to London, the sandy beaches, low crime rates and the use of English as the first language.

“There is a lot of interest right now,” said Nigel Philpott, the Jersey government’s head of high net worth residency.
“Last year I was getting one or two calls a day from people who wanted to come and join us. Now I get four or five on some days.”
Paul Bater, 52, a former bank manager from Swansea, is so happy with his move to Jersey that he has allowed himself to be used as a case study in promotional literature for Jersey Enterprise. “I love living in Jersey. The pace of life is much more civilised than anywhere else I have worked,” he said.

John George, the owner of Jag Communications, the UK’s third biggest mobile phone retailer, has moved to Guernsey, Jersey’s neighbour.
The 48-year-old businessman now commutes by private plane to his company’s office at Perranporth, Cornwall. The journey takes just 30 minutes — and ends at his privately owned airfield.

“It’s very easy, very straightforward and I never get stuck at the lights or any of that,” said George. His office is fewer than five minutes from the airfield.

His wife Susan, who joined Jag’s board in March, is one of 498 directors and partners of UK companies identified on a list from Companies House of those who now give their addresses as Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man. A further 91 UK companies have registered in these islands in the past year. The research also includes islanders who have joined the boards of British firms in the past year.

The tally, assembled by Philip Beresford, compiler of The Sunday Times Rich List, represents one of the first attempts to quantify the scale of the exodus.

For years considered little more than family holiday resorts, Jersey and Guernsey have become a playground for the rich in recent years, with Michelin-starred restaurants, luxury spas and hotels. Almost one in five of the island’s workers has a job in financial services. There are nearly 3,000 experts who help people set up trusts and companies — a rise of 12% since the onset of economic downturn.

It is a similar situation in the Isle of Man, which says it has seen a 20% growth in the non-banking financial sector.

The influx has also proved lucrative for Jersey’s estate agents. James de la Cloche, director of Edge, a property consultancy, said: “We love Gordon [Brown] and Alistair [Darling] over here — we rather hope they get another term.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6954613.ece

So carolt, any more moronic and self destructive ideas to ensure the rest of us get poorer?

Raising taxes, getting rid of bankers and other high net worth individuals, paying more interest, etc etc etc.....

I know, why don't you suggest solving the cost of heating bills by burning £20 notes instead....:rolleyes: It's about the only hare brained scheme you haven't come up with so far......

The politics of envy that you so often espouse are short sighted, idiotic and quite frankly pathetic.

chucky

Blacksheep1979 wrote: »

No you're probably not the only stupid person out there. Have you seen how much tax these folk pay, or the sums of money that goes through the country due to them.

Now in your blinkered little world you're probably just looking at the likes of RBS/Lloyds etc who have some of our money, but if you open up your eyes and look at firms from outside the uk that haven't had any uk taxpayer money like goldman sachs, deutsche bank, jpm morgan, morgan stanley (and the list goes on) - do you really want to lose their tax money?

Another simple example that you may understand better is say a Morgan Stanley banker gets a 100k bonus and is based in the UK. Ignoring NI (both from the company and the individual) £40k of that goes straight to the govenment as tax. Then he decides he wants a fast car/house/holiday/other consumer goods and 15% (soon to be 17.5%) of that goes to the government. Also as he's a fairly well paid person he probably eats out/drinks out a fair bit - again money through tax and supporting the leisure/service industries.

Anyone you know work or have anything to do with those industries/rely on them, think we can really do without the money?

so very true.. :T

ChiefGrasscutter

Blacksheep1979 wrote: »

No you're probably not the only stupid person out there. Have you seen how much tax these folk pay, or the sums of money that goes through the country due to them.

Now in your blinkered little world you're probably just looking at the likes of RBS/Lloyds etc who have some of our money, but if you open up your eyes and look at firms from outside the uk that haven't had any uk taxpayer money like goldman sachs, deutsche bank, jpm morgan, morgan stanley (and the list goes on) - do you really want to lose their tax money?

Another simple example that you may understand better is say a Morgan Stanley banker gets a 100k bonus and is based in the UK. Ignoring NI (both from the company and the individual) £40k of that goes straight to the govenment as tax. Then he decides he wants a fast car/house/holiday/other consumer goods and 15% (soon to be 17.5%) of that goes to the government. Also as he's a fairly well paid person he probably eats out/drinks out a fair bit - again money through tax and supporting the leisure/service industries.

Anyone you know work or have anything to do with those industries/rely on them, think we can really do without the money?

Of the ones I know...some extremely wealthy....

On the positive side they keep in employment vast numbers of staff, as well as buying endless services all of which circulates money back through the economy and in turn gives employment to others:
They contribute to charities and renovations/extensions of things which are open to the public both local and national: often anoymously.

On the negative side they buy up tracts of land and multiple properties and can outbid anyone every time. The land is thus prevented from being developed (?good/bad?) thus pushing up prices locally of exisiting properties out of reach of the poorer: This has advantages to some (the existing locals) and disadvantages to others.
They can't live in all their houses all the time so some properties are effectively unused with the various problems that brings to the immediate locality.

The big question however is what fraction of their income is actually circulated back withing the UK, as opposed to being used to buy things from abroad, or 'invested' in various low tax instruments both in the UK and abroad.......etc, and whether if this money was instead given to the poorer in society then it would be more likely to be actually spent in the local econcomy...... I don't know the answer.

On a slightly different point knowing that these financiers do work endless hours including weekends for their huge salaries/bonuses and seem to have no 'life', I often wonder if they are really happy given that their entire time seems to be given over to just making more and more money.

carolt

Thought this seemed extremely pertinent:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/8410453.stm

Almost (but not quite) made me feel sorry for them.

carolt

How bankers destroy £7 for every £1 they create: Hospital cleaners are more valuable to society, say researchers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235576/How-bankers-destroy-7-1-create-Hospital-cleaners-valuable-society-say-researchers.html

"Bankers may be good at making money for themselves - and sometimes for their banks - but they are a drain on society, a study has found.

It says they effectively take £7 from the rest of us for every £1 they create.

The foundation said there needs to be a 'fundamental rethink' of how people are paid.

Its report, A Bit Rich?, said: 'We found that some of the most highly-paid benefit us least, and some of the lowest-paid benefit us most.

'Although this will not always hold, it points to a massive flaw in the system and highlights the need for reform.'
Using investment bankers as an example, it said: 'Far from being "wealth creators", City bankers are being handsomely rewarded for socially -damaging activity.

'They are not just overpaid; they are overpaid at the expense of others.'"


My point entirely.

lostinrates

carolt wrote: »

How bankers destroy £7 for every £1 they create: Hospital cleaners are more valuable to society, say researchers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235576/How-bankers-destroy-7-1-create-Hospital-cleaners-valuable-society-say-researchers.html

"Bankers may be good at making money for themselves - and sometimes for their banks - but they are a drain on society, a study has found.

It says they effectively take £7 from the rest of us for every £1 they create.

The foundation said there needs to be a 'fundamental rethink' of how people are paid.

Its report, A Bit Rich?, said: 'We found that some of the most highly-paid benefit us least, and some of the lowest-paid benefit us most.

'Although this will not always hold, it points to a massive flaw in the system and highlights the need for reform.'
Using investment bankers as an example, it said: 'Far from being "wealth creators", City bankers are being handsomely rewarded for socially -damaging activity.

'They are not just overpaid; they are overpaid at the expense of others.'"


My point entirely.

I heard the woman who wrote this on Radio 4 this morning. In all honesty, I didn't feel envious of her strength of articulating her intellectual abilty. The parametres, as she described them were arbitrary, though obviously very well meaning.

carolt

I didn't hear her. But what do you think of the basic point, which I totally agree with?

chucky

lostinrates wrote: »

I heard the woman who wrote this on Radio 4 this morning. In all honesty, I didn't feel envious of her strength of articulating her intellectual abilty. The parametres, as she described them were arbitrary, though obviously very well meaning.

taking one year and then setting this is as the norm isn't too intelligent.

she should be checking the tax revenues and spending of these institutions and people over the last few years to give her point a bit more realistim.