Record numbers go hungry in the US

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

Or shark like sales people fraudulently persuading vulnerable people to sign up to loans they could ill afford so they could earn outrageous commission , you know the type :eek:

Part of the backdrop here is dismayingly familiar. Explosive growth of subprime lending created perverse incentives that led to fraudulently inflated loan terms. What's less known is that some of these loans were priced higher based on the race of the borrower, with African-Americans and Latinos paying more, in secret, behind-the-scenes deals. Some of this activity will even turn out to have been criminal. There are more than 1,500 open FBI investigations into mortgage fraud, much of it concentrated in the subprime market.

http://www.slate.com/id/2205264

Steve, the minute you find an example of anyone in the western world signing up to a mortage or loan they couldn't afford at the end of a gun being pointed at their head, you tell me ok?

Until then I will maintain my belief - one you obviously don't share - that all people are equipped with brains and common sense and the ability to think for themselves and make decisions for themselves.

My belief is that we are all rational beings. All relatively equal. You obviously feel people aren't all created equal and that there is some sort of natural untermenschen that can't think for itself. That's an interesting moral standpoint.

ninky_2

i suggest that that people stop taking out unaffordable mortgages and subsidising unaffordable rents with credit. let's see then how rich capitalism has made us all.

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

Steve, the minute you find an example of anyone in the western world signing up to a mortage or loan they couldn't afford at the end of a gun being pointed at their head, you tell me ok?

Until then I will maintain my belief - one you obviously don't share - that all people are equipped with brains and common sense and the ability to think for themselves and make decisions for themselves.

My belief is that we are all rational beings. All relatively equal. You obviously feel people aren't all created equal and that there is some sort of natural untermenschen that can't think for itself. That's an interesting moral standpoint.

I suppose companies do not need sales people and their tricks of the trade


Have you ever had someone convince you to buy something you knew you'd never use? How do they do that? Did you want to buy anything else from them? Did you have a good relationship with them? These are some of the questions that come up when you think about what types of techniques your sales team should use.

Early books about sales techniques (we're talking about the early 1900's) included key words like ethics, service, relationships, hard work, doing the best job possible, and loyalty to your company. These all led to the idea of building a friendship and relationship with your customers so they would keep coming back. (Sound familiar?) After about 10 years, other ideas began to surface. Door-to-door salesmen discovered that they could increase their sales by using specific words and specific persuasion methods. This led to the perfecting and proliferation of sales techniques that focused not on the customer's needs or building a relationship, but on closing techniques and methods that rated a one-time sale, which was their

http://communication.howstuffworks.com/sales-technique.htm

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

I suppose companies do not need sales people and their tricks of the trade


Have you ever had someone convince you to buy something you knew you'd never use? How do they do that? Did you want to buy anything else from them? Did you have a good relationship with them? These are some of the questions that come up when you think about what types of techniques your sales team should use.

Early books about sales techniques (we're talking about the early 1900's) included key words like ethics, service, relationships, hard work, doing the best job possible, and loyalty to your company. These all led to the idea of building a friendship and relationship with your customers so they would keep coming back. (Sound familiar?) After about 10 years, other ideas began to surface. Door-to-door salesmen discovered that they could increase their sales by using specific words and specific persuasion methods. This led to the perfecting and proliferation of sales techniques that focused not on the customer's needs or building a relationship, but on closing techniques and methods that rated a one-time sale, which was their

http://communication.howstuffworks.com/sales-technique.htm

And yet . . and yet . . and yet . . . no expert salesman in the world has a counter to that simple simple phrase: NO THANKS.

Modern society has got into massive debt because it just can't say no. Modern western adults have revealed themselves to be no more than children - I want it now, I deserve it, because I'm worth it. And yet, they don't and they're not. Because they can't afford it.

You paint a picture of evil svengali like mortgage sales men praying on idiot children. Is that how you see it? Don't you believe people have moral backbone and the sense to do what is right for themselves?

How very Labourish of you Steve.

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

How very Labourish of you Steve.

Yes, how wonderfull unfettered Capitalism is :beer:

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

Yes, how wonderfull unfettered Capitalism is :beer:

Were you thinking of addressing the point about people being responsible enough to say no, or where you going to walk away from it, Steve?

A simple question: Do you believe people don't have the ability to say no to something that is being sold to them?

And a follow up: If you don't belive people have the ability to say no, is the logical extension of this the acceptance that some people are idiots?

bendix

ninky wrote: »

i suggest that that people stop taking out unaffordable mortgages and subsidising unaffordable rents with credit. let's see then how rich capitalism has made us all.

I quite agree. People are being exposed as being considerable less rich than they thought they were or liked to present themselves as - as I said, it's a natural corrective.

However, I'll defy you to deny that capitalism generally hasn't lifted hundreds of millions of people out of relative poverty and given them a lifestyle hitherto undreamed of.

If that wasn't the case, why would so many nations and peoples aspire to a liberal democracy underpinned by a capitalist-based economic system?

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

Were you thinking of addressing the point about people being responsible enough to say no, or where you going to walk away from it, Steve?

A simple question: Do you believe people don't have the ability to say no to something that is being sold to them?

And a follow up: If you don't belive people have the ability to say no, is the logical extension of this the acceptance that some people are idiots?

Of course some people are idiots but that is a different issue entirely.
Why is someone who is not experienced in a particular area and is coerced by someone who is, an idiot It happens in all types of industries from the plumber telling you you need a new boiler, some people are more trusting than others I must say I am one of the suspicious types and would invariably ask for a second opinion.

Mr.Brown_4

bendix wrote: »

IIf that wasn't the case, why would so many nations and peoples aspire to a liberal democracy underpinned by a capitalist-based economic system?

Perhaps a fear of being attacked by the democratic freedom loving countries and being forced to hand over their mineral rights and hold meaningless corrupt elections.

bendix

Mr.Brown wrote: »

Perhaps a fear of being attacked by the democratic freedom loving countries and being forced to hand over their mineral rights and hold meaningless corrupt elections.

Oh, right.

And here was me thinking the mass migrations to the western democracies was down to something as silly as wanting to develop a better life for their families and own a fridge and a tv.