Overpayment in benefits.

Doodle_Bug_5

Hiya,

Just wondering if anyone can help me. My husband and I, over the years, built up a fair whack of debt between us, whilst at university, and then afterwards with credit cards, store cards, loans etc. We ended up wih around £30K worth of debts and things were pretty hairy.
However, we decided to do something about it, and worked bloody hard paying off all of our debts via an IVA, to become debt free approx 3 years ago.

So imagine my shock when I received a letter a couple of weeks ago, from DWP, stating that I owe them £700, and I will know what this is in relation to, from previous corespondance from them. I telephoned the number immediately and explained I had no idea what this was, as I had not recieved a single thing from them before this day! The lady on the line advised me that it was an overpayment in Jobseekers Allowance, dating back to 1994!!!!!!!!! and the reason it had taken them so long to contact me was because I had been on the move. Well - I have been at my current address for 6.5 years, prior to that I was at my previous address for 3.5 years, so I haven't exactly been on the run, or difficult to trace.

I am really !!!!ed off, that having worked sooo hard to clear all of my debt, I know have someone knocking at the door once again, for money owed. Had I realised this was outstanding, I would have paid it at the time of the IVA. :mad:

My question is, can they still chase me for this debt, 15 years later? I know with loans and credit cards etc, they can kinda expire after 5 years or so, and they cant actually take you to court and force you to pay if the debt has not been acknowledged for that period, but does the same apply to this J/A, as it isn't exactly credit I applied for. I dont have any spare money atm, and of course if I have to pay then I will arrange a monthly figure to give them, but I want to be sure first, that they are still able to chase me after letting it slide for 15 years, and now force me to pay, threatening me with further action if i dont.

Any advice most welcome!

Cheers Peeps
xx

healy

Yes they can chase you for the money as the 6 year rule does not apply here. If the overpayment was your fault you have to pay it but if it was the DWPs error you do not have to pay it.

munchings-n-crunchings

Hello,

It's right where there is limitation with some forms of debt, and after ( I think) 6 years, they can't pursue you for the repayment.

When it's the Government, this debt is not barred, so they will demand repayment.
As it's over 6 years, they are not able to take you to court, but if you are ever on benefits in the future, even if it's pension, they will then make deductions.

It seems, that that DWP are not making a splurge at recovering old debts, and arrears, so there are lots of people in the same position.
Even if you dispute the over payment. It seems to be, that it's down to you, to prove you have not been over paid, rather that the DWP proving that you have.

Speak to Welfare Rights. They can be contacted through your council. They should have some good advice on how to proceed,

Regards
Munchie

NASA_2

As healy has said, they can only pursue you for it if the overpayment was your fault ie. you failed to declare something which if it had been declared would have resulted in less benefit, or none at all, being paid.

If the DWP had all the facts and still overpaid you then it is official error and they have no legal right, or only a spurious one, to chase you for it.

fermi

Two links:

1) Court-rules-DWP-cannot-recover-overpayments

2) Factsheet | Liability for Debts and the Limitation Act (England/Wales)

Benefit Overpayments & Social Fund Loans

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has six years to take action through the courts to recover benefit overpayments and social fund loans. This time starts running from the date of the final decision made on the overpayment and from when the social fund loan was due to be paid. But the DWP are still allowed to make deductions from your benefit for a debt over six years old as they don't need to go to court to do this. This applies to overpayments of benefit such as Income Support, Jobseeker's Allowance, Pension Credit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and paying back social fund loans.

suelees1

fermi's right. They can recover it from ongoing benefits but if you're not then the Limitation Act does apply here so they can't enforce it through the courts after 6 years

As healy says they can't recover an official overpayment

They could consider using their discretion to waive recovery so have a look at this

http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb190/overpayments.htm

jctski

healy wrote: »

Yes they can chase you for the money as the 6 year rule does not apply here. If the overpayment was your fault you have to pay it but if it was the DWPs error you do not have to pay it.

I am shocked they can chase this after 15 years! because they are the GOV!!! grrr, what i would do is argue the fact they didnt alert you to the overpayment for this long amount of time of 15 years on the gounds you have not moved as much as they are saying you did, and for them to prove they did eveything possiable to find you to let you know about the debt, and try then to come to some agreement of a lower amount to pay back x hope it works out ok for you

playitright

jctski wrote: »

I am shocked they can chase this after 15 years! because they are the GOV!!! grrr, what i would do is argue the fact they didnt alert you to the overpayment for this long amount of time of 15 years on the gounds you have not moved as much as they are saying you did, and for them to prove they did eveything possiable to find you to let you know about the debt, and try then to come to some agreement of a lower amount to pay back x hope it works out ok for you

OMG..... I have just received a similar letter... I received a letter from DWP asking me to repay £900 of over payment from over 15 years ago!! I called them up to ask for details, and that I'm not sure I would be able to contest as I have no idea if they are correct or not! I was told they would send me details but instead I have received a letter from a solicitors for them asking for immediate repayment to avoid further actions being taken in the recovery of this outstanding debt.

Are we saying this further action can't be court action? I too was in a very clever financial situation at that time but have worked hard over the last 12 years to sort everything out. This is out the blue and quite distressing! I'm sure I cleared all debts.

Can anyone advise how the proceeded with a similar situation...
- did yo repay all of the debt?
- did you set up a payment plan?
- have you done nothing?
- what further action can they take?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Benefits_Bod

Seek advice and, in any case, write back to the solicitors along the following lines - keep copies of all correspondence and keep telehone contact to a minimum:

---

I do not know benefits legislation and the following is based on advice I have received.

1) The DWP is statute barred from seeking recovery under the Limitations Act 1980.

Without prejudice to "1":

2) I do not owe the monies alleged and/or;

3) I have never been notified of such an overpayment and, therefore, any purported decision is of no legal effect. I am advised to refer you to the House of Lords judgement in R v Sec of State Home Dept & anor ex parte Anufrijeva (2003) UKHL 36; this principle having been applied for many years in Social Security law.

4) In turn, I have never had the opportunity to seek the reasons for the purported overpayment, nor have I had the opportunity to exercise any legal rights to either request a revision of the purported decision or to formally appeal.

5) In the event there is an overpayment, it is for the DWP to show it was caused by either a misreprentation or failure to disclose a material fact. If the overpayment was NOT caused by misrepresentation or failure to disclose a material fact, the overpayment is not legally recoverable.

6) Where an overpayment is not legally recoverable, there is no legal basis on which recovery can be sought following the Court of Appeal's judgement in CPAG v Sec of State DWP [2009] EWCA Civ 1058.

7) In the event the DWP pursues this matter through the Courts, I intend to defend the matter vigourously. I will ask that all costs are awarded against the DWP.

---

To emphasise, I would strongly advise you seek advice from CAB or a switched-on welfare rights organisation. The law related to benefit overpayments is tricky - even for those who deal with it on a regular basis.


[Caution: The overpayment legislation is different for HB/CTB].

suelees1

This debt cannot be recovered throught the courts but can be recovered from ongoing benefit. If you're not in receipt of benefit now you might be some years down the line and they'll start to recover it then.

I'd suggest you ask for full reasons for the decision within one month and if you still disagree then appeal or alternatively you can appeal it straight away as you'll then be given the full reasons in the appeal papers along with any evidence they hold.

Benefits_Bod

Following suelees suggestion, bear in mind that a statement of reasons can only be requested once a formal notification of the decision in question has been issued. A request for repayment of an alleged overpayment is not necessarily the same thing.

So, how can you tell if the first letter demanding payment is a proper notification? In order for it to be so, it must identify the amount AND calculation. Further, it must contain your legal rights, such as how and when to request a statement of reasons and how/when to request a revision and/or make an appeal. If none of this information is included, I doubt the letter is a notification.

To reiterate, until/unless a formal notification letter of the decision is issued, any purported decision is of no legal effect.