getting a bigger mortgage to avoid child support

Found_true_love

Can i be contraversial?

Good. A child (at whatever age) will have a finite and therefore "fixed" cost to raise. So a child of 1 will need different requirements and cost different than a child of say 6.

A child of 13-16 may have outrageous cost expectations but finite actual costs.

My point is this, if it costs between £1000 and £2000 per year to raise a child of various ages and men and women being equal in the eyes of the law then those costs should be shared, should they not?

And that the RP gets the child benefit and that the cost of contact (travel) normally gets paid for by the NRP

It was a shared decision to have a child so cost for raising the child should be shared, but we then need to factor in (normally) mothers ability to earn vs raise the child.

So lets say the NRP, (normally) being a man, stands 75% of that cost

So he would be liable for £750 and £1500 per year maintenance or £62 and £120 per month.

Question, if it cost to raise the child the same no matter what the father does then why does the amount he earn mean make any different to the maintenance payment?

I would suggest that if it does, that then means that the mother is seeking a LIFESTYLE IMPROVEMENT instead of CHILD MAINTENANCE i.e. to pay for the cost of maintaining the child.

Bearing in mind that the NRP has cost of his own to pay for when the child is with (normally) him!

Where is the logic?

I feel the hands of our wonderfull PC femenist brigade working full time behind the CSA (and thats the contraversial bit!)

So charlearose think very carefully before you consider makiing this application just because you can (because of the rules saying you can) does not necessarily mean it is morally justified.

It all depends on how much it costs to MAINTAIN your child(ren) in the first place.

kingfisherblue

Found True Love, I would have no objection to a system such as the one you recommend. I can even allow for the fact that he is low paid and therefore on your system he might have to pay a lower amount (three children).

I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get the CM from my ex in the first place!

Found_true_love

The govenrment allow an adult single person (I think) £40 per week to live on £2080 per year on JSA (please insert the real figure if I am out of date on that figure). This is thier assesment of what you should be able to exist on.

Surely if they can asses that figure they can work out how much a child would cost to raise? age 1 £xx; age 3 £xd; Age 16 £xxxxxz;

The child benefit payment the RP gets, gets taken off the whole amount (therefore it is not double counted in favour of either parent) NB even if this step was excluded then my argument still stands

The remaining costs are split depending on relative earnings (or benefits)(factors in ability to earn and the actual earning ratios)

So if an NRP is a really big earner then he picks up the majority of the tab but the tab has an upper limit.

Then if a father is on a low income/wage the cost are more evenly shared.

This is a fair system, it promote harmony between the parents, the RP has no insentive to seek to hurt (financially) the NRP the max she could every get would be the allowance set by government.

But the figure would be realistic and fair and cost on the presumption of equal descion to have a child in the first place.

It would take the money grabbing attitude (of the RP) out of the equation it would not unfairly penalise the NRP for moving on in his/her life and that then gives the NRP child a better lifestyle at his/her home

If RP has an exceptional child expense it has to be discussed and agreed (private school?, school overseas trip etc.)

RP cannot then expect to live on earnings of NRP forever and is always seeking to see if a wage/income change has occured (if it has it will only mean a few %age in the ratio so the NRP is more likely to be up front about it)

What do people think? any better ideas? should we have a vote?

speedster

all very good points.

let's not forget that the csa actually promote and reward contact blocking too.

my lovely ex was advised by her caseworker to reduce my overnight stays from about 160 down to 50 so that i wouldn't get a reduction for it.

then she wonders why i've returned the favour by going LTD. greedy scumbag now gets naff all.

Found_true_love

Charlearose, why does the belief that your ex is now earning more money make you think that you should get an increase in your maintenance payments?

Or have I got that wrong, does his increase in mortgage comittments mean you think you will be getting less maintenance?

Either way wouldn't talking with him (I presume you are female RP) be the better way forward (I wish my ex would meet with me to sort out contact and maintenance instead of hiding behind CSA and her solicitors)

NB my ex has been so awkward with contact, limiting it in every way she can despite having a contact order (the courts seem to support and condone her breaching the order), so I have played by the rules and by using the rules (which I wouldn't have doen if she had played fair) she started off with an offer by me on the table of £32 per week all I wanted was for her to sit down with me and let me see my child overnight for a bit longer (my offer was also not linked to extra nights contact so it would have stayed at the same level no matter how much I saw my child. But she just stuck to the court order for contact.

She was greedy, thought the CSA would get her more, I am self employed (luckily) I used the rules she now gets £12 per week and is about to go down to £5 per week and she has only herself to blame.

She fought me I fought back, I dont mind paying more but I still want to see my child more (5 nights every fortnight) she dosnt see, she is stupid

Hey ho thats life, I now have a lovely wife we live with her two children I get on well with her ex he has all the contact he and they want, he pays what he think is reasonable for him my wife thinks this is fair wish my ex was the same, still thats probably why we split up!

speedster

almost a carbon copy of my ex! :beer:

quite happy to cut her nose off to spite her face. she can sit stewing on a fiver a week, just like your ex!

strange how they only like the rules when they benefit them though eh?:rotfl:

kingfisherblue

I just wanted to say that not all PWC are the same. I am a PWC and have three children with my ex. He has a fourth with his new partner. I actively encourage my children to see their dad each week. The two younger ones spend some time with him, but my 18 year old doesn't want to spend more than a few minutes with him, as he has let her down so many times. At one point, she refused to see him at all for three months (she was fourteen at the time). Even though she didn't wwant to see him, I encouraged texts, phone calls and even letter writing (ex does not use email).

During the time since we split up - he had found someone else - he has spent most of the time avoiding paying anything for the children. He has moved house three times and moved jobs numerous times, but failed to inform the CSA of any changes.

Although he does see the kids most weeks, from about 10am - 4pm, he rarely has them overnight. He has invited my daughter to stay overnight once. The youngest is invited to stay about three times a year - often for a week, but then his dad says that he has misunderstood and he can only stay for one or two nights.

Our middle child is disabled and needs care both day and night. His dad rarely wants him to stay over and it is only because my ex MIL refuses to let her son treat the two boys differently that he gets to stay at the same time as his younger brother. Ex is in bother otherwise! But ex does not give our son his medications - eight different types a day - even though he knows that it is essential for our child's health. I write everything down, including dosages, so there is no excuse.

I would much rather be bale to talk to my ex, but he refuses to listen to a word I have to say. He won't even listen when I'm trying to tell him what the hospital has said following an appointment for our middle child, or read the kids school reports (which I photocopy for him). So even though he sees the kids, he doesn't show any interest in their welfare.

I try to be fair. I let him see them every Christmas morning (I offer to let him have them overnight on Christmas Eve, but he refuses). I tried a private arrangement with him before going through the CSA (although the CSA worked out the amount - I had to inform them as I receive Income Support; I can't work due to my son's complex needs). I only persued him through the CSA when he hadn't paid for months.

Now that I am receiving arrears, as well as regular maintenance, I am keeping the arrears separate. It is being used to buy things that the kids need, such as new beds for the boys. After all, CM is for the kids - something that my ex fails to recognise.

PlayingHardball

[QUOTE=FoundTrueLove

She was greedy, thought the CSA would get her more, I am self employed (luckily) I used the rules she now gets £12 per week and is about to go down to £5 per week and she has only herself to blame.

She fought me I fought back, I dont mind paying more but I still want to see my child more (5 nights every fortnight) she dosnt see, she is stupid
[/QUOTE]

So, what you are saying is that you will contribute just a fiver each week for your child.....just to spite the ex? Who's the stupid one? Your attitude is a disgrace, your kid suffers, not her. You sound smug about your self-employment status, I guess you are truthful with your earnings to the CSA?

I find it very funny that you are blaming the ex for not being reasonable with you. Really? You don't sound like the unreasonable type!

kelloggs36

Found_true_love wrote: »

The govenrment allow an adult single person (I think) £40 per week to live on £2080 per year on JSA (please insert the real figure if I am out of date on that figure). This is thier assesment of what you should be able to exist on.

Surely if they can asses that figure they can work out how much a child would cost to raise? age 1 £xx; age 3 £xd; Age 16 £xxxxxz;

The child benefit payment the RP gets, gets taken off the whole amount (therefore it is not double counted in favour of either parent) NB even if this step was excluded then my argument still stands

The remaining costs are split depending on relative earnings (or benefits)(factors in ability to earn and the actual earning ratios)

So if an NRP is a really big earner then he picks up the majority of the tab but the tab has an upper limit.

Then if a father is on a low income/wage the cost are more evenly shared.

This is a fair system, it promote harmony between the parents, the RP has no insentive to seek to hurt (financially) the NRP the max she could every get would be the allowance set by government.

But the figure would be realistic and fair and cost on the presumption of equal descion to have a child in the first place.

It would take the money grabbing attitude (of the RP) out of the equation it would not unfairly penalise the NRP for moving on in his/her life and that then gives the NRP child a better lifestyle at his/her home

If RP has an exceptional child expense it has to be discussed and agreed (private school?, school overseas trip etc.)

RP cannot then expect to live on earnings of NRP forever and is always seeking to see if a wage/income change has occured (if it has it will only mean a few %age in the ratio so the NRP is more likely to be up front about it)

What do people think? any better ideas? should we have a vote?

Go back to CS1 then I see??

Found_true_love

kingfisherblue wrote: »

I just wanted to say that not all PWC are the same. I am a PWC and have three children with my ex. He has a fourth with his new partner. I actively encourage my children to see their dad each week. The two younger ones spend some time with him, but my 18 year old doesn't want to spend more than a few minutes with him, as he has let her down so many times.

Although he does see the kids most weeks, from about 10am - 4pm, he rarely has them overnight. He has invited my daughter to stay overnight once. The youngest is invited to stay about three times a year - often for a week, but then his dad says that he has misunderstood and he can only stay for one or two nights.

I would much rather be bale to talk to my ex, but he refuses to listen to a word I have to say.. So even though he sees the kids, he doesn't show any interest in their welfare.

.

Hi Kingfisher

Yes I agree not all case are the same, your situation is different from mine.

The differece is that I want more time with my (only) child, he says to me he wants to spend more time with me I want a bit more (I have two overnight stays) overnight contacts per fortnight, one more night to start with.

My ex resists any additional overnight contact why?

Your case is different from mine, I want to have my son overnight more to involve him with my life more, I would love (eventually) five nights a fortnight.

I am happy to pay maintenance, I am paying maintenance, at the beginning I was paying £100 per week then she told me to "stick it up my Ar**" and then stopped me seeing my son, my crime?

I met another woman (my now wife)

I have a lovely relationship with her children, its difficult at times I work hard at it, my philosiphy is, I am not thier father I am first thier friend then thier Mothers new partner, basically I am a guest in thier lives.

I cry when they miss thier mum and dad together (they can see him as and when they and he likes but they still want mum and dad together), I cry with my wife when she tells me she wished she had felt differently towards thier dad (no problems just fell out of love) I met her 6 months after she left him, my wife agonises about the family life she had to leave, it kills me and I feel for the children its not thier fault yet they are a "victim" i undestand, no I cant understand thier feelings but I try and understand them.

i have a good relationship with my step children, they see how my ex deals with me and my son and they are shocked, what more can I say?

My step children support me with regard to contact with my son they are early teenagers we laugh together we have play fights I am not thier father, I have developed a relationship with thier father we are ok with each other i am a good dad and step dad, I wish that I had met my my wife 20 years earlier, karma but I love her.

i wish I could still be a full time dad, I cant, I accept that and am not bitter, the situation with my ex goes on, I dont understand her reluctance to let me see my son more nights a week, I will explain under a different post

I am not bitter just dissapointed, I wish I could be with my son more he is lovely, I cry about it at times going from a full time dad to two nights a fortnight, it wasnt something I wanted but mum made the choice

then she gets all green eyed when I meet someone then it goes all tots up