Unenforceability & Template Letters II

captainhaggis

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

Ah I see, I'm being a bit slow here:o

Yes I sent them the SAR with £10 and they never replied within the 40 days so I sent them the Letter Before Action and they then finally replied the other day but no CCA or any default notice etc enclosed I just want to send them the correct reply so I can try and get them to remove the default, do I also send to all CRA's the default removal letter yet?

Thank you!

OK. This should be fairly brief.

I think - I'm no expert on the laws surrounding SARs - that Lloyds could get in to pretty big sh*t for what they've done here. You have SARd them and that, legally, means they have to give you EVERYTHING they have on you within a certain time frame.

For starters I'd be VERY surprised if all they have for you is statements. VERY surprised. You're meant to get copies of every letter you've ever sent them (if they have them on file), every email you've ever sent them (if they have them on file) and copies of EVERYTHING ELSE on which your name appears. That's your legal right.

So I think it'd be fair to offer Lloyds TSB an option here :

1) acknowledge that no CCA exists and deem the loan to be unenforceable as a result OR
2) let them come up with the CCA but make it perfectly clear that if they do so they'll have failed in their duties under whatever the hell law it is that deals with SARs (Freedom of Information Act?) and you will be reporting them to the appropriate authorities.

I think that not complying with a CCA request isn't nearly as big a deal as failing to comply with an SAR.

never-in-doubt

Flower567 wrote: »

Thanks NID - I will send the letter tomorrow via recorded delivery. Sorry to ask another 'simple' question but what do you mean when you say that they will probably send junk - if this is the case do we send the second letter? I just need to have it clear in my head what I need to do!

Junk = A non compliant CCA (i.e. a load of rubbish!)....

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

Right, I, I think I get ya! So the CCA they sent me isn't enforceable becuase it didn't contain the T&Cs for the account as these were provided seperately?

Exactly mate - spot on

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

I got a reply to my SAR from Lloyds in part of their reply they mentioned the following:-

"Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to locate a copy of your signed agreement. We can assure you that before we opened your credit card account we would have required sight of a signed agreement. If you take this matter further, we are confident in our ability to be able to prove this"

"Copies of Default and Enforcement notices are not saved by customer name so we are unable to provide copies under a Data Subject Access Request"

All they sent with the letter was 6 yrs of credit card statements!

CRA's are showing a default in 2008

From the above two paragraphs can any reply as to what I should do next and what letter I should send back, is there a standard letter to reply you don't get any CCA or default notice etc back?

Hiya

Just send the following letter and then ignore them until they respond. Their reply is nonsense, they always try the 'we'll defend this' claim but they simply cannot! The law clearly states they need an agreement to pursue the debt, whether or not you spent on the card means nothing - that is not up for dispute, what is, is whether they issued a compliant agreement and if they never (or cannot prove they did) then you win - the debt becomes unenforceable.

I didn't think i'd have to spell out the law to a bank (of all people) :rotfl:

So send this and then ignore them: 2. CCA Reminder

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

I only SAR'd them and they didn't send anything apart from statements, do I still have to send them the CCA letter with £1 fee or not or just send the default letter you mention on P1? Thanks

I think there is some confusion here - you do not send the Dispute letter but instead send the following: 2. CCA Reminder

never-in-doubt

Goodtimesahead wrote: »

What is a CPR31.16?
When do you use this and where is the info about this?

Thanks

CPR 31.16 is Civil Procedure Rule (disclosure) which in a nut shell is pre action notification that you want disclosure of documents prior to court action.

It is a severe threat used when a lender messes you around, obviously you will not go this route It is a threat in most cases to let the lender know if they don't send a photocopy of the original document that you will demand disclosure via the court (CPR31.16)

never-in-doubt

RoyalBlues wrote: »

I'm just gonna sit tight until I get something in writing. Is this right??

Fingers crossed........

Yep - just ignore them until they respond and obviously stop paying (assuming you were)....

never-in-doubt

captainhaggis wrote: »

OK. This should be fairly brief.

I think - I'm no expert on the laws surrounding SARs - that Lloyds could get in to pretty big sh*t for what they've done here. You have SARd them and that, legally, means they have to give you EVERYTHING they have on you within a certain time frame.

Not quite 'legally' mate. All they done is break the DPA, the DPA is under the control of ICO and the ICO have no 'legal' powers to action so basically they have done nothing wrong cos there is no punishment.

I am forvever arguing this with the ICO - they need to have powers like the FOS etc....

They have to respond within 40 days, if they do not then you complain to the ICO who take 3 months to tell you they have broken s.7 (DPA1998) which we already knew.... that's about that.

captainhaggis wrote: »

For starters I'd be VERY surprised if all they have for you is statements. VERY surprised. You're meant to get copies of every letter you've ever sent them (if they have them on file), every email you've ever sent them (if they have them on file) and copies of EVERYTHING ELSE on which your name appears. That's your legal right.

Yes unless the documents are 'hard to locate' in which case they can charge a 'reasonable' fee for retreival..... not always worth it if you see where i'm coming from, being you can only reclaim charges etc going back 7 years.

captainhaggis wrote: »

So I think it'd be fair to offer Lloyds TSB an option here :

1) acknowledge that no CCA exists and deem the loan to be unenforceable as a result OR

Or just send this letter to them: 2. CCA Reminder

captainhaggis wrote: »

2) let them come up with the CCA but make it perfectly clear that if they do so they'll have failed in their duties under whatever the hell law it is that deals with SARs (Freedom of Information Act?) and you will be reporting them to the appropriate authorities.

No law mate - ICO reglate them but have no powers. Breaching a CCA is more severe than breaching DPA (oddly enough) :eek:

captainhaggis wrote: »

I think that not complying with a CCA request isn't nearly as big a deal as failing to comply with an SAR.

Ooops - see above!

never-in-doubt

daz10277 wrote: »

Err, I can't seem to post the image of the CCA via any kind of hyperlink, it says it's because I'm a new user??? What's the best way to get you to see it?

Cheers

Upload it to imageshack or something then post the link leaving a gap in the address so for instance:

w w w.moneysavingexpert . com

This way it will let you add the link of the image.....

never-in-doubt

C2K wrote: »

Thank you for your reply NiD, here's my story:

So, your further advice is really appreciated. Thank you.

Please name the OC - and the DCA etc - please tell me the names? Did you actually get a court stamped document regards to court date or a letter from the OC? Big difference?

Do you have a house/mortgage?