Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

chinawhite wrote: »

Hi

sort of !??! - one is an egg card and one is egg money, i dont get paper statements but they both come under the same online banking log in but they are then itemised as egg card and egg money, both have different credit limits and different interest rates.

If i now need to request CCA's for both what is the best letter to send as I have already sent the £1 letters for each account separately.

Thanks for the help:D

Hiya

Ok, so it is definitely two accounts. You should go to page 1 and in post 1 it will tell you the process. You have done step 1 (sent the CCA Request) so you would then go to step 2 which is sending a reminder letter.

One for each account remember - this is two separate incidents not one. :rolleyes:

never-in-doubt

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Hi Niddy,

CCA Dispute/Template 4 letters sent late December 2009.

Only had one reply from HBOS with a reconstituted copy of an agreement. They have found a signature from somewhere and pasted it on. Whole form including dates not in my handwriting with loads of information on the copy incorrect i.e. left the employer noted on the form a year before the signature date, income of me and spouse clearly made up, credit limit handwritten and wrong and the best bit of all they have me ticking the PPI box which I would NEVER and have NEVER done and have never paid a premium for. Classic! I will assume they have not got the original (otherwise details would be correct) until I hear otherwise.

Assume I ignore all of them and sit tight now?

Thanks for your never ending patience!!!!!

Hiya

LOL - thay have actually done the old 'cut-and-paste' job have they? Isn't it a good job we all use electronic signatures - any they wonder why we refuse to sign things :rotfl:

You should now send the following letter, adding the part you stated above why it is non-compliant.

4. CCA Dispute

You add your extra bit after this bit at the end of the 2nd para:

In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

never-in-doubt

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

I am getting on great with my cca requests. One has sent back a reconstituted agreement to me within the 12 day limit.

Its a miracle! :rotfl:

Seriously though, if it is a recon then this means nothing unless they have the original - so still cease payments and ask for the original, why are they hiding it and making a reconstitution when they could simply photocopy the original?

Until such time they confirm they have the original and are prepared to share it, even if that means you going to their offices to view it, then the account remains unenforceable - tell them politely to swing for any money! :whistle:

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

It is for a credit card that I recieved without asking for it when I took out a personal loan with a building society. I am almost positive that I never either recieved or signed a credit agreement for the card.

Ok - see above.

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

I am starting to get defaults from the other lenders that I have sucessfully cca'd which is fine by me if it gets me out of paying.

Careful how you word things mate, lol, lots of preachers around :think:

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

My problem being that the one with the reconstituted agreement now want payments to start again. I do not really want to pay this credit card back especially as my credit rating is now effected anyway.

Answered at the top mate - worry not, it still does not make it enforceable until they provide or confirm they have the original. If they confirm they have it then simply arrange to go and see it, if they refuse you should let them take you to court and use all this against them when you hit them with a CPR31.16 request for disclosure.... I think you can imagine what happens next when they are found to be lying and or witholding relevant information as to the legality and enforceability of the alleged debt?

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

What can they do if I refuse to pay ????

They can do nothing - they can try for a CCJ but you'd then appeal for strike-out due to the account being unenforceable in line with s.127(3) meaning they cannot enforce the debt.

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

Can I say take me to court as I am sure that the reconstituted agreement has been made up from details from my loan agreement with them.

No need mate - see above.

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

What would be the outcome in a court room do you think if I said that I was sure there never had been an agreement and demanded to see the so called origional as proof ??

It'd never get that far, if for any reason they did provide an original with your signature on it (it must have that to be legally enforceable before anything else) then you'd simply agree to a repayment plan and accept defeat long before court.

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

Am I barking up the wrong tree do you think or should I just pay this one.

You're barking up the right tree mate - remember we know the back door secrets more than the lenders do - you're sorted with this one. Ask yourself, why are they sending a copy and why would they spend all that time and money making it when they could simply copy the original? It suggests (strongly suggests) they do not have one, like you state.

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

Thanks again for your time and valuable help mate.

No probs matey - anytime :beer:

never-in-doubt

fto wrote: »

Hi NID,
I have decided to go down the unenforceabillity route.I have had Natwest & A&L cards for around ten years.The problem is, I have not paid the last 2 months payments, I have had a change in wages & Its either pay them or the mortgage.I know I should have acted sooner,but I put this to the back of my mind.
A few days ago I sent them a letter I downloaded, asking them to freeze payments & interest for a month. I have had letters from them saying if I do not pay by friday,they will pass it on to debt collectors.
Can you give me any advice,this is quite new to me I have always had a excellent credit history.

Hiya

Are you sure you want to ruin your credit record? Unenforceability will affect it and you will end up with defaults.

It may be better to post a new thread as others may have better ways of dealing with this, i.e. going to payplan or similar may help negotiate reduced payments....

If you really want to walk away from these debts and go down the unenforceability route (ruining your credit file in the process) then post back and we'll help any way we can

Personally, for the sake of two cards, i'd be posting a new thread with a lot more details here: Debt-Free Wannabe

roadster

Hi NID

Sent off 5 cca to my cc.

Had a copy of t&c from Monument but nothing else - so sent letter 2

Heard nothing from Mint, Barclaycard or MBNA so sending off letter 2 tom

Had a reply from Halifax as follows

I write in response to yourrequest from Kerobo Claims for acopy of your cca under sec78 of the cca 1974.

I have enclosed with this letter a copy of your reconstituted version of the executed agreement comprising both the original and current T&C together with a signed statement of the account.

The copy of the agreement enclosed with this letter copmlies with the requirements of the cca (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 (the regulations). Regulation 3(2)(b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of sig. In summary we are not required to produce a copy with your sig on it.

By providing you with the docs att to this letter, we have satisfied our obligation to provide a copy of the executed agrrement under sec 78. As such, the agreement you have with us is fully enforceable and we will continue to treat it as such. We will not be entering into any further correspondance with you regarding the requirements relating to the provision of copy agreement.

Also on the terms and cond they have sent me at the very top is The Parties to this agreement are Halifax PLC and Mrs XXXXX of 42 XXXXX Rd London

Sorry for the long winded version - questions i have are

Kerobo - who the hell are they I am not using a claims company

Who he hell is Mrs XXXX not even the right sex and about 250 miles away from my address.

I take it that this is unenforceable as no sig docs and not even in my name

Whats my plan of attack do I write back asking who kerobo and Mrs X are or continue with letter 2.

Surely they are breaching data protection or something

You thoughs and suggestions are most appreciated and keep up the good work.

Oh and forgot to metion Savy p**s O**

Thanks NID

Dojo_Jo_Jo

Thought that would amuse!

They sent the dodgy CCA reconstruction AFTER I had already sent them 4.CCA Dispute. So do I have to acknowledge that they have sent something and it is factually incorrect? You are right they didn't enclose a full statement.

Celebrating with a massive bacon sandwich (been on a diet since after Chistmas!)

burton_trade_kitchens

Thanks NID. I'm off for a good nights sleep now!!!!!!
Your a star....

never-in-doubt

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Thought that would amuse!

They sent the dodgy CCA reconstruction AFTER I had already sent them 4.CCA Dispute. So do I have to acknowledge that they have sent something and it is factually incorrect? You are right they didn't enclose a full statement.

Celebrating with a massive bacon sandwich (been on a diet since after Chistmas!)

Yea as courtesy i'd send the letter anyway, it gives you proof that you know what they are up to and may stop them wasting time and money pursuing this....

Or leave it for now and i'll write you a letter later tonight and PM you. I'll hit em for 6 lol.

Just tell me the name of the company and other things i'll need to know... :rotfl:

never-in-doubt

burton_trade_kitchens wrote: »

Thanks NID. I'm off for a good nights sleep now!!!!!!
Your a star....

Thought that would cheer you up mate lol - they don't have a leg to stand on until such time they present or confirm they have an original agreement, as you can see from Dojo - they regularly invent CCA's.... :mad:

Dojo_Jo_Jo

Okay Matey cheers

Sounds like a plan, can't wait to read it!!!!!!!

Company is Bank Of Scotland Preference Account. PM me for any other details you might need. I will keep a copy of whatever you write as I have a sneaky suspicion I may need to use it again!!!!!:rotfl:

At the risk of appearing unladylike.... As Jim from the Royal Family would say
"Savy..my ars*!!!!!!!!"