Some facts for a change, instead of speculation......

chucky

Graham_Devon wrote: »

For you chucky.

This could drag on a while.....

Simple analogy taken by Julie, and turned into my own personal finances! Bravo!

you've missed out all the posts in between though. why?

good try to make you look less stupid though... :T

Really2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yes - because I could go out tomorrow and buy a handful of magic beans on my credit card for £15000. But I'm not going to. My ability to pay and my desire to pay are separate things.

err I have already said no desire means you are negative on demand.

So they are seperate but they still have an effect on demand!

If you wanted to buy them but some one else had brought them you have now increased demand.

Best go round to jacks house and see if you can do a deal.:)

You seem to think prices are set and people either pay them or they don't and
supply and demand have no bearing on that.

If a product costs £1M to make no one wants it a company is screwed.

But I an item costs 1p to make, supply is weak but every one wants it a company is laughing.

Cost to make/market will have a bearing on price but it will be supply and demand that will eventually set the market price. Or indeed if a product is viable.

Your argument is a bit Chewbacca

System

Perhaps you're confusing future earnings with future wage growth.

Edit: @G_D

IveSeenTheLight

abaxas wrote: »

The issue is, I could write a blog saying anything I want to. It doesnt make it right.

What gets me is this...

"New instructions are coming onto the market at 3,505 a day."
"The number of homes selling however is up a third at 2,700"

So supply far exceeds demand, and magically about 1/2 of houses are sold without a mortgage. Miracle I say.

What needs to be understood about supply is that it is not just the number of properties for sale, it's the number of properties for sale that people want to buy.

There may be a number of properties marketed which is not to the low volume of buyers requirements e.g. overpriced, requires too much refurbishment, not in the right catchment area etc etc

So while it is true that there is more supply available than demand to buy, you still see the demand competing with each other for the quality properties that are available for sale

ruggedtoast

julieq wrote: »

Oh !!!!!! Graham.

You asked one question "Where does the money come from to sustain rises". I answered the question "from future earnings based on multiples of salary". You then missed the point of the answer completely (fine, not your fault necessarily, it was a brief note but you complain if I use lots of long words and I was on the point of going to bed) and changed the question to one about how you personally can buy a house if prices rise. Then when I explained in more detail you called what I wrote "drivel". Which it isn't, it's an explanation addressing the questions you asked (specifically of me as it happens).

If you don't want answers, don't ask questions. It's pretty simple.

You realise there are limits to fractional reserve ratios of course Jules.

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The supply and demand argument is "theres not enough houses for the amount of people".

That's not the supply and demand argument.
Clearly there is enough property unless the demand are all sleeeping rough

Demand is the quantity of people with the desire and ability to purchase.

Supply if the number of properties that meet the requirements of buyers.

I think you may beed a bit more clarification with the supply, so here's a simple example.
There may be 1,000 properties for sale, but if 100 of them have problems such as subsidence, flooding issues, require redevelopment etc and the buyers are not interested at this time of bidding for them, then effectively the available supply is effectively only 900

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

oh I understand Hamish.

I understand that I asked a question about supply and demand, and that the credit crunch was blamed for the fall in house prices.

The credit crunch was a cause that resulted in the effect of demand lowering

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I understand that I then went on to say well supply and demand is not the oinly factor then is it, you can't have it both ways to say they will just keep rising as the population gets bigger, that this credit crunch then gets lumped into supply and demand.

It's important to understand what supply and demand is and also the factors which affect the levels of supply or demand.
The credit crunch was a factor, that's all.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Then, all hell breaks lose, people realise their mistake, and go down the "just cus you don't understand graham" as usual.

It is clear that you didn;t understand, hence why people were trying to explain to you

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I understand fine. Supply and demand is effect by other variables. Variables which you do not want to talk about, so easier to go childish and pretend they don't exist, or pretend you can include them in supply and demand as if you have ALWAYS included these variables in supply and demand whenever you talk about it.

IveSeenTheLight

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The demand for houses is not going to fall, ever. It is probably up there with the demand for Ferraris in the all time demand stakes.

Ferraris arent exactly commonplace however.

4000 mars bars - er no I'll pass thanks. Want 4000 houses - oh yes please. It doesnt change the fact that someone somewhere has to pay for them, and for most of us that involves committing to a long long period of paying back a mortgage.

I think your confusing demand with desire.

Demand is the desire AND the ability to purchase

IveSeenTheLight

lemonjelly wrote: »

There are numerous significant factors which affect supply & demand, sentiment, employment, family circumstances, career changes, care responsibilities, schooling, aims & desires, keeping up with the joneses etc etc etc. To sya its is simply supply/demand is extremely narrow minded.

Saying it is the balance of supply and demand is trying to keep it simple, its not a case of being narrow minded.

You have pointed out a number of factors which will affect either supply or demand, which we understand, however the all encompassing headers for these factors which affect house prices is simply described as supply and demand

Really2

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I think your confusing demand with desire.

Demand is the desire AND the ability to purchase

I think they are thinking demand only ever = higher prices.

I have said many times on this thread supply and demand sets the achieved market price.
That could be falling or rising, I can't see why so many have an issue with the point.

I for one was fully aware why prices fell.