CSA useless, claim they can't find father?

tek-monkey

My GF has an 11 year old son from her previous marriage, which ended about 6 years ago. At the time the father agreed to pay £40 a week for his son, which was sorted through his solicitor, but he has never paid a penny. He used to see his son a lot, but since having kids with his new partner he doesn't bother anywhere near as often. Its now down to once a fortnight, for 3 or 4 hours, on the occaisions he doesn't cancel or send his dad round instead because he's had to work.

About a year ago my GF tried getting the CSA involved, one year on and they say they can't find him so there isn't much they can do. They have his NI number, they know where his family live, just not him. He won't tell my GF where he lives either, nor give her a phone number for him. I can't believe they honestly cannot find him, they tracked him down once and he started providing information, then stopped again. Apparently this meant the CSA wait 3 months to see if he really has broken contact before deciding to chase him again?!?!? So now they just say tough, can't do anything.

Is there any way to pursue this? If I were to provide proof of his address, such as photographs of him entering/leaving the house would they follow this up? I know roughly where he lives, and he has a distinctive car, so shouldn't be hard.

Whats really upsetting is her son gets really upset when his dad cancels, and takes it out on his mum. He's scared to say anything to his dad, because he thinks if they argue he'll never want to see him. His dad even took his pocket money off him (given by his mum) the other week, to buy fishing stuff to take him out this weekend. But then cancelled again, by getting his dad to call up for him.

TBH the resolution we'd prefer is that his dad sees him more often, the money isn't as important. If he won't see him though, he should at the least pay towards his upkeep. Unfortunately this reminds me very much of my own father, and 20 years on we speak maybe once a year. I'd rather he didn't have to go through the same as I did.

Sorry for the rant, was only meant to be a quick ask for help!

karenx

Even if you had photos of him entering and leaving a house all the time it doesnt mean its where he stays though?
CSA cant make the NRP see the child involved, they can only help try get money off him. Although it doesnt always work if the NRP doesnt co-operate. My case has been ongoing for the past 6 years because of a non-cooperating NRP!

DUTR

karenx wrote: »

Even if you had photos of him entering and leaving a house all the time it doesnt mean its where he stays though?
CSA cant make the NRP see the child involved, they can only help try get money off him. Although it doesnt always work if the NRP doesnt co-operate.

I'm with karenx on this above, however to add, if it is not about the money then arrange independantly on access and contact, irrespective of the morals, not every NRP is going to go through loops and hurdles to see their child(ren) from a previous relationship, especially if he has a new family where none of those limitations are imposed. Of course he should contribute to his previous 'comittment' but that is a seperate issue from contact.

tek-monkey

He wont see him more often, says he's too busy with his other family. I know there is no way to make him care about his son, but at least hurting him financially may make him reconsider. As it is he has no penalty for just not bothering. My GF would happily forgoe the money if he'd just treat him as his son, rather than a part of his past he'd rather forget. Up until this current partner he'd see him every weekend, see him after school etc. Once the new kids arrived though, nothing. He's happy to support her kid from a previous relationship, but not his own.

Does she have a legal right to know where her child is when with him, or be able to contact them should she need to?

DUTR

tek-monkey wrote: »

He wont see him more often, says he's too busy with his other family. I know there is no way to make him care about his son, but at least hurting him financially may make him reconsider. As it is he has no penalty for just not bothering. My GF would happily forgoe the money if he'd just treat him as his son, rather than a part of his past he'd rather forget. Up until this current partner he'd see him every weekend, see him after school etc. Once the new kids arrived though, nothing. He's happy to support her kid from a previous relationship, but not his own.

Does she have a legal right to know where her child is when with him, or be able to contact them should she need to?

As you can tell from my other post in another thread why I understand why the NRP in your case may behave has he does, this is re -enforced with the last few lines , if she cannot trust the father when he is in contact and having quality time with his child without interference from the mother, then I can see why he would not bother, paying csa is not a burden like when it 1st arrived (as long as one does not accrue arrears) , I would however feel uncomfortable being with a GF who cannot seem to let go of her previous relationship, is this really about the child's interest?

tek-monkey

She has to cope with a very upset 11 year old every time his dad decides he has better things to do and doesn't show up, maybe she's just being selfish?

As for not trusting, its not that at all. But surely she should at least be able to contact him if needed. What if something happens? She can't leave the house when her son is with her dad, because he won't tell her what time he's bringing him back. So she has to spend the day sat around waiting. Not that it matters anymore, as he'll only take him for a few hours anyway. He wouldn't know about paying the CSA being a burden, as he wont pay it.

As for not letting go of her past relationship, not sure I get you? He's the son of her child, and he keeps screwing with the poor kids feelings. Are you saying she should ignore the fact her kid is upset by his dad, or keep the kid from his dad completely? Its not like she can avoid seeing him, on the odd occaision he does show up?

shell_542

I don't think its a good idea using the CSA as a tool to try and force an NRP to see their child. I think its best to look at it as seperate issues, like the courts do.

I don't know about them claiming they don't know where he is. Its happened before but I'm not sure what you can do. Hopefully someone else will.

Your GF should definitely know where the children are staying if over night and she should have a contact number for them when in the ex's care. If he won't agree, all you can do is refuse unsupervised contact or contact a solicitor to sort out boundaries of contact legally.

Its sad that he's messing around and upsetting his son, but all you can do is damagge limitation. You cannot force someone to see their child.

thorsoak

tek-monkey wrote: »

She has to cope with a very upset 11 year old every time his dad decides he has better things to do and doesn't show up, maybe she's just being selfish?

As for not trusting, its not that at all. But surely she should at least be able to contact him if needed. What if something happens? She can't leave the house when her son is with her dad, because he won't tell her what time he's bringing him back. So she has to spend the day sat around waiting. Not that it matters anymore, as he'll only take him for a few hours anyway. He wouldn't know about paying the CSA being a burden, as he wont pay it.

As for not letting go of her past relationship, not sure I get you? He's the son of her child, and he keeps screwing with the poor kids feelings. Are you saying she should ignore the fact her kid is upset by his dad, or keep the kid from his dad completely? Its not like she can avoid seeing him, on the odd occaision he does show up?

Why not get a cheap payg phone for her son which you ensure has £5 credit on it when he goes out with his dad. Mum can call and check son is having a good time, and son can cll when dad is about to bring him home. That way, your girlfriend can feel reassured that she can contact her son at any time she needs to - and that he can contact her if he needs to.

tek-monkey

Yeah, you're right. Can't change his attitude, may as well just hit him financially. If he tries to reduce payments by seeing his kid thats his lookout, but may as well get something out of him. Her son just started high school, and all the stuff for that didn't come cheap!

He's got a PAYG phone but seems amazingly deaf. Never hears the thing, yet mention sweets and he's like a rat up a drainpipe!

DUTR

tek-monkey wrote: »

She has to cope with a very upset 11 year old every time his dad decides he has better things to do and doesn't show up, maybe she's just being selfish?

As for not trusting, its not that at all. But surely she should at least be able to contact him if needed. What if something happens? She can't leave the house when her son is with her dad, because he won't tell her what time he's bringing him back. So she has to spend the day sat around waiting. Not that it matters anymore, as he'll only take him for a few hours anyway. He wouldn't know about paying the CSA being a burden, as he wont pay it.

As for not letting go of her past relationship, not sure I get you? He's the son of her child, and he keeps screwing with the poor kids feelings. Are you saying she should ignore the fact her kid is upset by his dad, or keep the kid from his dad completely? Its not like she can avoid seeing him, on the odd occaision he does show up?

Everybody has to deal with an upset child and once one party starts the csa thing, it is something to consider (they pay they don't have to stay) the NRP should contribute, but she cannot force him to see the child, as said, putting hurdles in the way gives an easy get out for him, he has a family who readily accept him for who he is, I'm sure he is not made out to be a 'bad' person to his current family (where would you rather be, with people that love and care for you or others?)

I know in my own case from the past, I'm more protective over my offspring than the Mum so when it is my time, it is my time, there is no good reason for her to need to check up on the child outside her quality time, if he does not see the child and the Mum has the son all of the time, then she does not need to check via the father (you have to consider that he may want nothing more to do with the Mum (even for the child's sake))

As for increasing contact to reduce CS payments, doesn't compute as he will be spending more than what he is saving (I too have had that tact " oh if I get the csa reduced will you...." )

In some respect i think she is using the child to have some kind of contact (even hold) over the ex, the child is old enough to use a telephone, he can make contact off his own back, I'm sure it won't be rejected and there is no harm in trying the contact with the son without the mother's approval.

The NRP should pay some child support and the sytem will help and support her to conclusion, however with regards the contact the Mum is going to have to take a humble back step and accept she WILL NOT be in charge of that side of the issue

tek-monkey

So just to clarify, you also don't give the other parent a number to contact you should something happen, you also won't agree a time to return the child but do so when you feel like it? You think that is fair?

As I said above though, yes I agree you can't make someone be a good parent. So may as well get some money out of them to actually help fund the childs life.

I just can't understand someone not willing to help their own child, it seems inherently wrong to me. In an ideal world people would realise having a child is a much bigger commitment than anything else in this world. A marriage can be annulled, a house can be sold. Your kid is your kid for life, do you really want them to grow up resenting you?