Government to break up the rescued banks

Thrugelmir

chucky wrote: »

as far a UK banks you are of course right - the unknown is foreign banks coming onto the UK mortgage market will they do what Abbey are doing? large margins off a small number of loans or small margin with lots of mortgages being issued.

Foreign banks have contracted their UK lending in the past year. As have there own domestic issues to deal with. The changes in the banking sector, ie higher capital requirements, will affect all the G20 countries. This isn't just a UK banking issue.

Why do you believe foreign investors will choose to invest in the UK housing market rather than other investments?

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Y'know, I get what your saying. However, in all honesty, I don't think this would bother me. Tesco's have only got to where they are because they have done what customers wanted.

Tesco's cannot drag me in to their store to do my shopping. They can however open their doors to me when I want to do my shopping, offer me incentives, make it easy for me.

It's for that reason that I will part with my cash in Tesco's.

It would be very different if they somehow forced me to shop there. But, they don't, and in all honesty, won't ever be able to. If Walmart has not taken over America, Tesco's is not going to take over the UK anytime soon.

Fair enough. I guess I fundementally disagree with you, but it's all matter's of opinion. I think a lot of people use Tescos because of habit and because there is a lack of choice. I think this lack of choice came from Tesco using underhand tactics to complete dominate a market and force out competition, leaving the consumer with not a lot of choice. People contstanly use the argument 'if you don't like them, don't shop there'. However, if you're local greengrocer and butcher have gone out of business, or are forced to raise their prices so high that they just cannot compete with Tescos you're ultimately forced to go to Tescos, whether you like it or not. You end oup with the situation where the only place that the average joe can afford to shop is the supermarket. Tesco can pretty much force government policy on land usage, my local butcher can't really do that .

It doesn't matter really Graham. You like Tesco and enjoy shopping there and that's all good.

Just to play pure devil's advocate (because I find it fun), I've slightly changed your quote. Is there really a difference? Or is it that you're just passionate and informed about one subject but not the other?

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Y'know, I get what your saying. However, in all honesty, I don't think this would bother me. The Wilson's have only got to where they are because they have done what customers wanted.

The Wilson's cannot force me in to one of their properties to live. They can however open their doors to me when I want to rent a house, offer me decent rental rates, make it easy for me.

It's for that reason that I will part with my cash to The Wilson's.

It would be very different if they somehow forced me to rent one of their houses. But, they don't, and in all honesty, won't ever be able to. If Walmart has not taken over America, The Wilson's are not going to take over the property market anytime soon.

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

Fair enough. I guess I fundementally disagree with you, but it's all matter's of opinion. I think a lot of people use Tescos because of habit and because there is a lack of choice. I think this lack of choice came from Tesco using underhand tactics to complete dominate a market and force out competition, leaving the consumer with not a lot of choice. People contstanly use the argument 'if you don't like them, don't shop there'. However, if you're local greengrocer and butcher have gone out of business, or are forced to raise their prices so high that they just cannot compete with Tescos you're ultimately forced to go to Tescos, whether you like it or not. You end oup with the situation where the only place that the average joe can afford to shop is the supermarket. Tesco can pretty much force government policy on land usage, my local butcher can't really do that .

It doesn't matter really Graham. You like Tesco and enjoy shopping there and that's all good.

Just to play pure devil's advocate (because I find it fun), I've slightly changed your quote. Is there really a difference?

The bit where I disagree is the lack of choice and the "forcing" lack of choice.

For instance, my parents are friends with a couple who own a shop in the town I work in. It's a small, localised, speciality shop, though does well and has been going for 5 years. Soaps, candles, all that kinda jazz.

It's profitable and keeps a couple and their 17 year old in a home, fed and watered etc.

However, business rates are going up soon. They are going up by 317%. On top of that, car parks in the town are all going up. They are all going up by 50p for half an hour, an extra £1.10 for 3 hours etc.

This turns out a as a 70% increase in costs to park to go to that shop.

I don't believe it's tesco's that are driving small business to end. I believe it's councils. I'd have no problem shopping in my smaller town, I have done it a couple of times and it's refreshing to buy new and different stuff. However, it cost my pocket dearly.

Plus, where I have Tesco's, within a 10 mile raduis I also have Somerfield, Asda, Waitrose, M&S, Morrisons, Sainsburys. I certainly have choice!

Thrugelmir

Cleaver wrote: »

Fair enough. I guess I fundementally disagree with you, but it's all matter's of opinion. I think a lot of people use Tescos because of habit and because there is a lack of choice. I think this lack of choice came from Tesco using underhand tactics to complete dominate a market and force out competition, leaving the consumer with not a lot of choice. People contstanly use the argument 'if you don't like them, don't shop there'. However, if you're local greengrocer and butcher have gone out of business, or are forced to raise their prices so high that they just cannot compete with Tescos you're ultimately forced to go to Tescos, whether you like it or not. You end oup with the situation where the only place that the average joe can afford to shop is the supermarket. Tesco can pretty much force government policy on land usage, my local butcher can't really do that .

It doesn't matter really Graham. You like Tesco and enjoy shopping there and that's all good.

Just to play pure devil's advocate (because I find it fun), I've slightly changed your quote. Is there really a difference? Or is it that you're just passionate and informed about one subject but not the other?

So how you do you feel about Lidl and Aldi ?

They are not British companies. Are not listed but privately owned. So all the profits flow abroad.

Cleaver

Thrugelmir wrote: »

So how you do you feel about Lidl and Aldi ?

They are not British companies. Are not listed but privately owned. So all the profits flow abroad.

I don't really care where any profits flow. I object in the main to Tesco's business plan, ethics and totalitarian approach. It's not like I'm outside there with placards and I have no problem with other's shopping there at all. I just don't personally like them very much. I do sometimes take issue with people saying that there is no harm in Tesco and their ilk and that 'people have choice'. I simply disagree with this. Just like Mr and Mrs Wilson that get discussed on here a lot, I think both are quite odious entities who have little regard for their customers, no real aim to provide a decent product and have a disrespect for the communities in which they set up their business. Lots of similarities in my eyes.

With regard to the other two supermarkets I don't really see the same desire to completely take over people's lives that I see in Tesco (slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I don't believe it's tesco's that are driving small business to end.

Wow. Fair enough. FC has posted thread after thread on here about how a variety of large multi-national coprorations have threatened and thrwarted local, small, community businesses through a variety of rather underhand and sneaky means. And she should know, she owns one of these businesses. I can't understand on any level how you could come to that conclusion, so I think rather than have the usual Graham vs someone else for 4 pages I'll give up gracefully and we can agree to disagree.

lynzpower

With regard to the other two supermarkets I don't really see the same desire to completely take over people's lives that I see in Tesco (slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

I know you just said this so I can unleash my outrage yet again at Tesco Town
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23756241-tesco-town-planned-next-to-2012-site.do

News



Tesco town planned next to 2012 site

Abul Taher
14.10.09

lynzpower

Urgh god. I am now thoroughly appalled

Tony Blair has been in talks with Tesco about helping them open supermarkets in the Middle East - allegedly in return for up to £1million.
It is believed the discussions between the former Prime Minister, now a peace envoy to the region, and the supermarket chain, whose slogan is 'Every little helps', ended after the two sides failed to agree terms.
The disclosure could further damage Mr Blair's hopes of becoming the first President of Europe, as critics will seize on it as evidence that he is as interested in making money as he is in reviving his career as a statesman.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224414/Tony-Blair-talks-Tesco-1m-deal-supermarket-chain-eyes-Middle-East.html#ixzz0VcFtnyPs

Thrugelmir

Cleaver wrote: »

I don't really care where any profits flow. I object in the main to Tesco's business plan, ethics and totalitarian approach. It's not like I'm outside there with placards and I have no problem with other's shopping there at all. I just don't personally like them very much. I do sometimes take issue with people saying that there is no harm in Tesco and their ilk and that 'people have choice'. I simply disagree with this. Just like Mr and Mrs Wilson that get discussed on here a lot, I think both are quite odious entities who have little regard for their customers, no real aim to provide a decent product and have a disrespect for the communities in which they set up their business. Lots of similarities in my eyes.

With regard to the other two supermarkets I don't really see the same desire to completely take over people's lives that I see in Tesco (slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

Then have a read on Lidl. Which operates 7,000 stores in 17 countries.

Cheap prices appear to come at a cost.

Trade unions in Germany and other countries have repeatedly criticised Lidl for mistreatment of workers, breach of on European directives working time and other abuses. These have been published in the "Black Book on the Schwarz Retail Company" published in Germany and now available in English. Whilst The Times notes that Lidl managers work excessive hours, being obliged to sign out of the working time directive when starting with the company, both The Guardian and The Times in the UK amongst other allegations have reported that Lidl spies on its workforce with cameras, makes extensive notes on employee behaviour, particularly focusing on attempting to sack female workers who might become pregnant and also forces staff at warehouses to do "piece rate" work which is now illegal in the EU. Lidl management denied the charges. No public information is given on the Lidl website about how to contact Lidl senior management and the company hides its ownership structure behind an elaborate network of front companies. In Italy, in 2003, a judge in Savona sentenced Lidl for anti-union policies, a crime in that country.
In March 2008 the German news magazine "Stern" released a cover story reporting systematic surveillance of Lidl workers, including most intimate details of their private affairs.
Lidl has also come under criticism in the United Kingdom & Ireland for not allowing workers to join Unions.

chopperharris

Banking-

THe eu is telling the uk policy , yet it has no intention of telling france not to divest its government interest in car makers.

Perhaps they only mean that banking in the uk must be shrunk , to open the door for the smaller euro banks to come in and get more of a presence , and by using a golfing handicap system just to level the field....ie knobbling.

For a simple comparision can you imagine man u having to play in europe with 8 men because they have too big a support/income , or until alex ferguson is replaced by a manager in the swedish 3rd divsion.

Santander is hiding its toxic debt , and has bought up many local banks , it has a smaller governement involvement , will they also be told to shrink , I doubt it.

Those countries in the euro have to toe the line as part of having the euro currency.We are not in the euro monentary system , so they cannot tell us HOW to operate uk banks , brown must remind them of that and do a reverse chruchill wave.However they can tell us how to operate and sell off those banks in the euro zone no where else.

Theres profit for the tax payer here , or brown would not have bailed them out , if we allow the eu to dictate uk policy on this one we are shafted and will see no return on the investment.

Technically we think the future is bad just now , well it would be a lot worse if this is allowed to happen.If we accept them forcing a fire sale , of the good parts of banks without the toxic as part of it , then its only a matter of time before the quid is history and we are spending euros.

Tescos-

While not yet strickly related to banking yet , I agree on the sentiments exposed on their monopoly of the high stree.Things mentioned like councils unable to fight for denying them planning , they have other avenues to use that they havent yet thought of...should a council wish to know how then feel free to contact me.

The eu is wanting to shrink banking to increase comptetition ,allowing tesco wouldnt be shrinking it it would be monopolising it eventually.

Brewers-The effects of legislation for competition

15 or so years ago the brewers were told to offload their pubs for competition , what has happened since in the pub game , we now have about a tenth of the pubs and the brewers are pretty much in control of what is left.