Norwich Union Stakeholder and External Funds

srosco

Hi,

I hope someone might be able to clarrify the situation with Norwich Union Stakeholder and external funds.

I have a NU Stakeholder plan I opened back in 2002. When I started it the AMC was 1% max. (actually 0.85% as it was through HL)
and I had the choice of the usual 23 NU funds.

Recently I have seen reference to the external funds available to NU Stakeholder, with Fidelity, Schroders etc.

Do only new Stakeholder plans only opened recently allow access to these external funds? I know that the Stakeholder charging system has
changed and the AMC can now be 1.5% for the first 10 years, to allow more fund flexiblity. When this change to the charge structure
occurred did it effect all existing Stakeholder plans, or just new ones being opened?

Thanks to the complete lack of information I get from NU concerning my Stakeholder plan I feel totally in the dark about what on earth is happening
with it. They have not informed me that the charges have changed.

I suspect that it may have effected only new plans and my plan might still have lower charges (good) but stuck with the poor NU funds (bad).
I'd rather get access to external funds and pay the higher AMC, as long as it became cheaper long term.

As well as the NU Stakeholder, I have a HL SIPP. I was considering transfering out of the NU into the HL SIPP. However as I have some
protected rights in the NU I'm not sure if its possible. Also I'm trying to see if it is possible to get a better long-term deal with a Stakeholder
plan, but still have access to good fund managers - which would be the ideal situation.

Or have I got it all wrong and there are no external options for NU Stakeholder?

I will have to bite the bullet and attempt to phone NU (useless) customer services, but first I would like if possible to know what
the situation is as I would like to be a bit more clued up before phoning them. I have more faith that some people here will know more
about the NU Stakeholder plan then the NU customer service people do.

Thank you for any help

Steve

dunstonh

I have a NU Stakeholder plan I opened back in 2002. When I started it the AMC was 1% max. (actually 0.85% as it was through HL)
and I had the choice of the usual 23 NU funds.

NU stakeholder doesnt have any external fund links. It has 23 internal funds available only. Nothing changed on that front (although there was a period when they reduced it to 4 funds for a short period on new business before putting it back to 23 funds again).

Recently I have seen reference to the external funds available to NU Stakeholder, with Fidelity, Schroders etc.

That is incorrect at this time.

Do only new Stakeholder plans only opened recently allow access to these external funds? I know that the Stakeholder charging system has
changed and the AMC can now be 1.5% for the first 10 years, to allow more fund flexiblity. When this change to the charge structure
occurred did it effect all existing Stakeholder plans, or just new ones being opened?

No NU stakeholder allows external funds. The revised charging structure only applies to new stakeholders taken out after April 2006.

Thanks to the complete lack of information I get from NU concerning my Stakeholder plan I feel totally in the dark about what on earth is happening
with it. They have not informed me that the charges have changed.

NU are not responsible for giving you advice. You are. You choose HL for this product and its upto HL to tell you about the product. As you went down the low cost route, HL wont tell you as they are making no money out of you now.

Plus, NU havent changed the charges so the only thing they need to send out is the annual statement.

I'd rather get access to external funds and pay the higher AMC, as long as it became cheaper long term.

You took out the wrong product then.

As well as the NU Stakeholder, I have a HL SIPP. I was considering transfering out of the NU into the HL SIPP. However as I have some
protected rights in the NU I'm not sure if its possible

Its currently only possible with hybrid SIPPs investing into unit trust/oeic funds.

Also I'm trying to see if it is possible to get a better long-term deal with a Stakeholder
plan, but still have access to good fund managers - which would be the ideal situation.

Why stakeholder? You are really limiting your options by looking only at stakeholder pensions.

Or have I got it all wrong and there are no external options for NU Stakeholder?

I fear you are mixing up the NU personal pension which has lots of external fund links covering all the major funds as well as offering the stakeholder funds still on 1.00% (before discounts). The NU PPP is a superior pension to the NU SHP.

I will have to bite the bullet and attempt to phone NU (useless) customer services, but first I would like if possible to know what
the situation is as I would like to be a bit more clued up before phoning them.

You may complain about NU's useless service but I can tell you that the IFA serviceline is excellent to them and as you purchased it through an IFA but with one that gives no ongoing servicing, you do have yourself to blame really. sorry. The NU pension is geared up to be serviced by the selling agent or other advisers.

So, in summary, you should have chosen the personal pension rather than the stakeholder and if service was a concern for you then you shouldnt have taken the cheap option. Good news is that its easily sorted to switch between the SHP and PPP.

srosco

Thanks for the reply dunstonh

I guess that hits the external funds option from the NU Stakeholder on the head!

A couple of things made me think it may have changed. When one looks at the Cavendish web site, and clicks the funds link for Norwich Union Stakeholder, it lists external funds (although link itself says 23).

http://www.norwichunion.com/funds-prices/pension-funds.htm
include those funds under the Stakeholder option.

Also I thought in some of the debates in other threads on this forum in the SIPP verses Stakeholder question that some folks had been able to access external funds. But they must not have been talking about NU.

Obviously from what you say with the NU Stakeholder this isn't an option - which is what I needed to know. I shall certainly look into the NU personal pension as an option to switch to.

I don't expect NU to give me advice, or HL. And I do realise you pay for what you get. I wouldn't say I took the wrong product when opting for the NU Stakeholder as at the time I was happy with the 23 funds they offered - which is good for a stakeholder. I'm only now re-assessing the NU Stakeholder verses the HL SIPP and if to keep or not (making my own personal decision on the matter once I weigh up all the pros and cons).

I do, however, have issue with NU customer service. Up until Dec 05 I had no complaint with them. But I never received my Dec 05 statement. Which I have complained to them about with as of yet no response. They also !!!!!! me off big time by not telling what on earth they were doing by reducing my Protected Rights value by over £1000 in Dec 05, removing the money from the 02 transfer value - but thats a long story. But I fully appreciate if I had bought through IFA and not on the cheap - I would have someone to consult with about these matters. So in that sense I agree that I have no one to blame but myself.

dunstonh

The link for NU mixes the personal pension and the stakeholder pension funds together. Whilst they are applicable for that series, the product itself restricts it.

L&G have some external funds under the stakeholder side and we have mentioned them here before. Perhaps it was them?

The NU stakeholder under its old 1% charging structure was pretty good for a stakeholder although the April 2006 onwards version is very poor value for money when compared to the much better personal pension they offer. After all, why pay 1.5% for 10 years on the stakeholder when you can get the same internal funds for 1% on the personal pension

With regards to service, I do appear to be an anomaly. I find NU service is generally very good. However, I do have 2 individuals at NU that take on my business personally and the local manager for them does a very good job at sorting issues out. If i have a problem, I don't need to worry about going through call centres. I just email/phone either of those three up and it gets sorted. All that said, many IFAs would agree with you on the service.

There have been comments made that suggest that you will be able to SIPP protected rights soon. Although nothing official yet. Now that the hybrid SIPPs can have protected rights, it really has to be only a matter of time before full SIPPs can have them too.

srosco

Looking at it again, dunstonh, and what you have said its all makes sense now. I was getting confused between "Your Pension" the Stakeholder and "Your Pension Select" the personal pension. And I guess it was the L&G the other folks where talking about. I was putting 2 and 2 together to make 5!

Like you say, the Stakeholder April 06 onwards version really is poor if you don't get any external fund options with increased cost.

I had a quick look on the web for information about the NU PPP. Which there appears little, as they seem to push the Stakeholder. I guess this is because NU do not sell the PPP direct and its only sold through agents.

I could transfer through Cavendish, but then buying one blind without knowing exactly what I'm getting myself into would no doubt be rather foolish. But then if I can't get the external funds at a cheaper cost then through the HL SIPP then thats no advantage. I'll have to think on this some more.

Your help has been much appreciated.

Thank you

Steve.

EdInvestor

You're probably best to wait until Sipps can take protected rights ( probably from April next year when Sipps are regulated) and then do a transfer.

duckhunter

srosco check your PMs