"Bullying" on the forum - part Two

momoyama

Hi all. I've started this second topic as MSE Andrea has closed the original thread and won't reopen it despite my repeated requests. She wants to "draw a line under it". I strongly feel that there's more to say and also that it was closed at a very bad time, where people were unable to reply to comments made toward or about them.

I thought about this last night after we finished for the night and concluded that I need to modify my way of thinking on this board. This is what I wanted to say. I also hope others may gain from it.

What kicked off some heated discussion was a poster saying they hated members of the board that criticise others' English. I disagreed, feeling that clarity of language is essential when the medium is English and tone and para-language can't be conveyed well in text. I think we all agreed that whereas "bullying" probably does exist, some of it would have been down to misinterpretation of what was typed. This made this part of the discussion very relevent. People took both sides of the argument.

Now, what I didn't understand was this:

rosieben wrote:

I disagree very strongly with this. This is not the ideal place at all, in fact I cant think of a place that is less ideal. Many people who come to this forum are out of their minds with worry about redundancies, illness, bankruptcy and the like, and the last thing they are going to be concerned with, quite rightly, is whether or not their post will pass the grammar test.

Now, I didn't know this. As far as I was concerned the brief was "Money Saving Expert". This is what I came for (though I don't think I've actually gained anything in that respect - maybe I've missed something). Honestly. In my defence, I actually didn't know that this was the case on board.

With that in mind, I feel that I previous opinion may be ill-placed on here. Specifically on here. Otherwise, on any other forum, I stand by everything I've said.

So, the reason that I was asking Andrea to re-open the thread was so that I could say this. Essentially to apologise. Also, to hope that some people would also see this and think about it. Maybe they too didn't know. I don't think that I've yet been in Pedant Mode on this forum. If I have, then I'm sorry.



As a side thing, I gained something else from that thread, which degenerated into pointless arguing over irrelevent issues: much of the resolution of "bullying" comes down to good moderation. Whether it be actual bullying or people misinterpreting posts (due to the above points on tone and para-language). I wouldn't say that I've encountered actual bullying on this board, but then I'm thick skinned. I've certainly encountered some almightly trolling and intent to cause upset on the recent smoking thread. I duly reported the guilty party (several times, actually, and I know that I wasn't the only one) but no moderation actually took place until the thread was finally closed with no-one being taken to task (AFAIK).

The bullying thread highlighted this further with the discussion degeneration and condescending tone of one poster, which I raised at the time. This was not moderated. In my oppinion, the key to prevention of bullying has to be good moderation, which I'm yet to see anywhere on this forum. Sorry, but that's my honest view.

zippychick

Momo , you make a fair point. I am not sure if this thread will be left or locked - as Andrea stated she didnt want it opened again (i didnt realise it was locked)

Regards the moderation. As far as I understand it, this forum is self moderated, so it is up to the individual to report, or the Board guides to do what they feasably can within their limited volunteered time. I can't help feel BGs get the brunt of blame for most things on here - not saying you are doing that. But i do feel a duty to defend them as they have been nothing but curteous , helpful and genuinely kind to me in my own personal experience. Especially Pink and Pen pen.

If you feel you have had bad experience, maybe you could take it up by using the abuse button, or on the feedback board? Not dismissing what you are saying, but can't help fearing this might open up a similar thread to last night

Regards why people come here - that's a nicely made point - not realisiing people come here under severe distress. It is true. Personally I owed £1200 on my overdraft from living outside my means for an awful long time - due to unforseen circunstances. With the help of this board, I paid that off from Nov last year - i was in the black by pay day this feb.

I am eternally greatful to Martin and this site. Yes, i wasnt in as bad a way as a heck of a lot of people, but it was damaging my health in many more ways than I can list. So, I appreciate you now realise how people find this board, and how it literally can and has been a lifeline.

Step onto the debt free wannabe board one day - if you don't already. You will see people literally desperate for help and their whole lives depending on it

I think I interpret your post correctly - with a slight intent of apology for not realising the seriousness of this board, and how genuinely upset people are when they come to post here - so I for one, will shake your hand for that.

momoyama

zippychick wrote: »

I think I interpret your post correctly - with a slight intent of apology for not realising the seriousness of this board, and how genuinely upset people are when they come to post here

That was wholly my intent and what I told Andrea that I wanted to say.

And yes, I've reported Andrea's final post as "abuse" as I feel that she promoted a degenerating thread including some very negative attitudes.

zippychick

Right, I didn't realise that's what you meant or were inferring?

By Andrea saying

The point's been made now and hopefully those involved are aware, let's get on with saving money now!

Andrea

Personally, i thought she was doing exactly that - drawing a line under it (and locking a thread which had quite frankly gone so far off the rails it was insane)

The thread wasn't gaining anything - it was turning into a b***h fest about OS and other irrelevant issues, so I for one can see exactly why she did this (and do not see it as condoning the tone of the thread in any way shape or form)

momoyama

The problem as I see it wasn't so much that it was closed, more when it was closed. Comments had been made about my posts overnight which I feel I have a right to reply to. Plus I'd thought about and... well you can see the rest.

Yeah, it had gone off the rails, but strangely had stayed relevent. Bit of an odd one.

Maybe "condoned" is the wrong word. Endorsed?

zippychick

momoyama wrote: »

The problem as I see it wasn't so much that it was closed, more when it was closed. Comments had been made about my posts overnight which I feel I have a right to reply to. Plus I'd thought about and... well you can see the rest.

Yeah, it had gone off the rails, but strangely had stayed relevent. Bit of an odd one.

Maybe "condoned" is the wrong word. Endorsed?

Fair enough. There never would have been a "good" time though to be honest.

HariboJunkie

momoyama wrote: »

The problem as I see it wasn't so much that it was closed, more when it was closed. Comments had been made about my posts overnight which I feel I have a right to reply to. Plus I'd thought about and... well you can see the rest.

Yeah, it had gone off the rails, but strangely had stayed relevent. Bit of an odd one.

Maybe "condoned" is the wrong word. Endorsed?

A thread is closed by a member of the MSE team because a member of the MSE team see fit to do so. If they waited until everyone felt they had their say and responded to everything they wanted to threads would never be closed and some of them really do need closing.

catznine

Least said soonest mended! There is a lot of wisdom in this very old style saying!

Woofles

Right I've just written an extremely long reply and lost the damn thing, basically in my book re-opening a thread that Andrea has expressed a wish to be closed is Trolling.

If this degenerates like the last one I will have no hesitation in reporting it.

I'm sorry if that's blunt and to the point, but its late and I'm annoyed and grumpy.

rosieben

I noticed last night that your posts on the bullying thread were actually the first that you made on OS and I was a bit mystified by your great interest in a thread which was directed at OS specifically.

I must admit that after a while I went off to watch the paint dry in my kitchen, wishing there was a vote button for 'most boring thread on the forum'

The point I made about people being desperate because of illness, debt, redundancy etc applies to all parts of the MSE forum, not just OS

geordie_joe

zippychick wrote: »

The thread wasn't gaining anything - it was turning into a b***h fest about OS

First can I say that I agree with everything you have said so far, but I feel I must comment on this one point.

Some people may have seen it as a b***h fest about OS, but there were people who came in to say they were not comfortable posting in OS because of the way people are treated.

I suspect those people read OS but are afraid to post because of the reaction of regular posters. They would not go into a thread and say something like "I posted in here yesterday and was made to feel unwelcome". Because they were afraid they would be on their own "against" all the regular posters.

But when a thread came up where other people were saying the same thing they spoke up. Perhaps because they thought they would have a little support and not be "one against the regulars".

If this is true, then what does it say about OS? "You are welcome as long as you fit in and toe the line, but if you don't then we'll let you know you are not welcome" ?????

Posters on the OS board may think it is a nice place, and I am one of them, but I was surprised that there were people on the outside looking in, reading the tips and using them but not daring to post in here.