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Death of tenant in common?

Where a mortgaged BTL property is owned 50/50 as joint tenant. Where one joint tenant dies and leaves theie estate to someone else: is there anyway the deceased's estate can force a sale?
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Comments

  • duncan303
    duncan303 Posts: 305 Forumite
    where property is owned in equal shares as "tenants in common" (let say by two people but could be more) A and B.

    B dies and leaves estate to C

    A remains a legal owner and C becomes a Beneficial owner(after probate).

    A does not need permission of C to sell

    C cannot force A to sell

    essentially a trust
    pretty sure Ive got this right... see what others have to say


    ...
  • yelf
    yelf Posts: 865 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    that was my understanding too. thanks
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    What if the estate need to liquidate assets?
  • duncan303
    duncan303 Posts: 305 Forumite
    Next bit is if A and B entered into a contract with Z (lets say a lender of money).

    B dies,

    A, as a legal owner, takes sole responsibility in contract with Z,,? depends what signed contract entered into by A and B says.

    C as beneficial owner assigned from B is entitled to any profit from rental and equally responsible for outgoings, but cannot enforce decisions.

    A says "new guttering to be fitted by X". unconsulted C has to pay proportion out of profits.

    What does original contract with Z reveal? presumably standard, can you provide link to a draft copy of yours?


    ...
  • duncan303
    duncan303 Posts: 305 Forumite
    What if the estate need to liquidate assets?

    Like, any business, I presume they are entitled to sell the asset, in the same way that B was entitled to will it away to whomsoever they chose without (presumably) consultation with A.

    I am attempting to contruct this from first principles, although it does seem a little odd that this method of ownership is being used where there is little or no equity, I shall be interested to see what others have to say.

    Valuation for probate is interesting, How about a draw down for C?
    ..

    ...
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    duncan303 wrote: »
    Like, any business, I presume they are entitled to sell the asset, in the same way that B was entitled to will it away to whomsoever they chose without (presumably) consultation with A.

    I am attempting to contruct this from first principles, although it does seem a little odd that this method of ownership is being used where there is little or no equity, I shall be interested to see what others have to say.

    Valuation for probate is interesting, How about a draw down for C?
    ..

    ...

    this was the question and I don't think it has been answered.
    is there anyway the deceased's estate can force a sale

    I think the answer is probably yes
    eg : if the assets need liquidating to pay off debt.



    Is it really the case that A+B TinC with joint mortgage then if B dies A is responsible for the full debt and cannot get 1/2 from the estate.
  • SmlSave
    SmlSave Posts: 4,911 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Or the debt could be secured against the property?

    If the debt is in the sole name of B, the estate of B - including 50% of the property - is responsible for paying off the debt which would mean that A would have to sell said property to do so or perhaps remortgage to release funds.

    gets confusing doesn't it?
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  • duncan303 wrote: »
    Like, any business, I presume they are entitled to sell the asset.

    ...

    to clarify it should have read: I presume they are entitled to sell their asset,.
    and that asset being only thier "beneficial share" of the property. It was bad wording sorry:o

    A beneficial owner has no authority to force the legal owner to sell.

    what is more of course is that the legal owner/s becomes jointly and severally liable for the whole debt to Z.

    C can only sit back and wait. normally a trustee is set up for C, furthermore C probably doesn't get any say in the choice of Trustee. A chooses.

    It is an important principle that as an entity C has not "morphed" into B. B is dead.


    ...
  • Yikes hold up a second,

    I have been replying to the title TENANTS IN COMMON

    not

    JOINT TENANTS :o

    They are NOT the same the same type of ownership at all.

    Exactly what does the proprietorship register say Jelf.?

    All my replies are in reference to property owned in shares as "tenants in common".

    ..
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    edited 15 October 2009 at 12:55PM
    duncan303 wrote: »
    to clarify it should have read: I presume they are entitled to sell their asset,.
    and that asset being only thier "beneficial share" of the property. It was bad wording sorry:o

    A beneficial owner has no authority to force the legal owner to sell.

    what is more of course is that the legal owner/s becomes jointly and severally liable for the whole debt to Z.

    C can only sit back and wait. normally a trustee is set up for C, furthermore C probably doesn't get any say in the choice of Trustee. A chooses.

    It is an important principle that as an entity C has not "morphed" into B. B is dead.


    ...

    But we are not talking about C here, we are talking about the estate before the benificial ownership passes to C.

    I thought the estate was a legal owner of the asset and the debt.

    So if the estate owed money say to HMRC then the estate could force the sale of the asset(if the other ower cannot raise the funds)

    Can the estate can just right off the mortgage debt because it is jointly held with someone else?
    how does the living party protect against this?

    (trying to learn/understand)
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