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Oldernotwiser

Westwardho wrote: »

Looks like I won't be eligable for any benefits then

I'm just curious as to how you are able to come to the conclusion that I am clueless about the real world?

I came on here asking for some advice about my lack of experience and references. I have been completely open and honest about my situation and I have received some really helpful comments. But I don't see how saying something like I am 'clueless' and the 'real world' is at all helpful for my original query. Moreover, I have no idea how you have been able to come to that conclusion based on a few postings on a moneysaving forum- you know absolutely nothing about me so please don't judge me based on very limited evidence.

I've given you the information you require and also some useful advice. However, I don't think it's particularly harsh to use the word "clueless" about someone in their mid twenties who's never held a job of any kind and who knows so little about something like the benefits system as you do. (eg not knowing that you can't receive means tested benefits when you have substantial amounts of capital behind you.)

You'll need to grow a thicker skin if you decide to drop your PhD and join the rest of us in the world of work!

Westwardho_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I've given you the information you require and also some useful advice. However, I don't think it's particularly harsh to use the word "clueless" about someone in their mid twenties who's never held a job of any kind and who knows so little about something like the benefits system as you do. (eg not knowing that you can't receive means tested benefits when you have substantial amounts of capital behind you.)

You'll need to grow a thicker skin if you decide to drop your PhD and join the rest of us in the world of work!

LOL!

I don't know anything about the benefits system in the UK because I was brought up overseas until I was 14 and since moving here no-one in my family has ever been on any sort of benefits even tax credits or family allowance.

I have already said that I have not held a job because I went straight through education without taking a gap year and during the summers I have worked on academic research or been overseas.

Believe me I have a very thick skin and am involved in the world of work- this may come as a suprise to you but the lecturers, professors, post-docs, fellows, readers, technicians, receptionists and admin staff that I work alongside everyday aren't students but workers just like you! And when I join them on the payroll, I will not take people in or out of my workplace calling me things like 'clueless' like a chippy little child; its nothing to do with having a thick skin its about not wanting people to make judgements about me based on their own silly little prejudices.

Thank you for all of the advice that you have given me.

Westwardho_2

hothothot wrote: »

There is a great deal of animosity against people who have worked hard academically in this country - part of the reason nearly all my friends who graduated have went abroad to work.

It is nonsense to expect someone with higher education to do menial jobs or expect the same pay as someone without qualifications.

My own example, I graduated with 2:1 and joined the police. From day 1 even from my trainers there was this unprovoked hatred and jealousy - I was told that my degree meant nothing, it just proved a level of intelligence. Strange how they didnt make the correlation when it came to monthly exams and I was in the high 90% written scores where most people I worked with - could barely spell their own names - scrambled their way through. Most Police Departments in the states- for every qualification you have you get paid extra salary, and in most departments a degree is an essential requirement.

This country has lowest standards in many professions on the principle that they give everyone a low pay and instead of proven qualifications they put people in responsible jobs and let them scramble through on trial and error basis - in the meantime the rest of society carries the incompetence that results.

If you have a first class degree you are in the top 5% of the population in terms of educational qualifications, hard to give advice I dont know what your degree is in. If I were in your position I would apply for graduate trainee positions.

Forget nearly all benefits if you have over 16k savings.

Hi hotpot,

I have found this too in this country. I have family and friends all over the world and everywhere else most people want their children to do very well in education and prize a good education very highly. I find the anti-education attitude in the UK very strange indeed! And the fact that the police don't have a graduate scheme baffles me!!

I was thinking about graduate training but I can't really move around the country too much, which is what alot of the schemes involve, as I have a partner and house where I am.

FYI- my degree was in Biological Sciences. :rolleyes:

Westwardho_2

Lol!

I believe you need PGCE-type qualifications to do FE teaching, which I don't have. I haven't looked into obtained such a qualification but its something that I will have a look into! I'm not sure whether there are bursaries or funding available for PGCE training at FE level because, obviously, I don't want to be losing money! Hee hee!

I have always avoided teaching like the plague because I have a couple of relatives who are teachers and they have always said don't get into it- its a nightmare! But I think FE teaching would be better that secondary school teaching!

hothothot_3

Westwardho wrote: »

Lol!

I believe you need PGCE-type qualifications to do FE teaching, which I don't have. I haven't looked into obtained such a qualification but its something that I will have a look into! I'm not sure whether there are bursaries or funding available for PGCE training at FE level because, obviously, I don't want to be losing money! Hee hee!

I have always avoided teaching like the plague because I have a couple of relatives who are teachers and they have always said don't get into it- its a nightmare! But I think FE teaching would be better that secondary school teaching!

For teaching at FE College I meant (I didnt mean the warzones they call secondary schools).

I dont think you always need a special qualification for being a FE tutor, just a good undergraduate degree, or maybe you can gain the extra qualification alongside teaching. This is the case in Scotland anyway, where I know some people who became tutors at college after graduating. Something to look into maybe.

As for school teaching, there is alot of bursaries, golden hello bonuses (4k bonus to pass teacher training I think) and demand. Something to consider, especially as there is a great shortage of science graduates.

seven-day-weekend

Get some work experience, even voluntary, quickly. That way you will at least have some work experience and an employer's reference. Be prepared to start at the bottom.

And I agree I'm afraid that in the present climate, unless you are going into very specialised areas, your first class degree will not count for a lot over someone who has the relevant experience but an unclassified (or no) degree.

I don't mean to put you down, but you may as well know what you are up against.

Savvy_Sue

Westwardho wrote: »

I understand that any work is experience but I can't really afford to take a pay cut!

And the alternative is? You either stick with the PhD, take a pay cut, or go on benefits, which you may not be entitled to.

But you're going to face the same problem at the end of your studies, whether that's with an MPhil, PhD or nothing - there's no automatic right to a salary that enables you to live in the manner to which you've become accustomed.

So my response to your first post is ...

Westwardho wrote: »

My issue is that if I am kicked off or if I quit my PhD, how negatively will my lack of experience impact upon my ability to get a job?

how negatively do you want to present your lack of experience? Because on the one hand you're saying you have none, and on the other you're saying you're employed and going to work. And I would present it in that way, as a job of work.

Going back to the PhD, universities would prefer not to have too many postgrad drop outs because it doesn't look good in the stats. Is it worth talking to the HoD and discussing a change of supervisor, if you think anyone else would be better? Or even changing universities, no idea if that would be possible for you but I have known it happen.

Oldernotwiser

hothothot wrote: »

Ever thought about teaching at further education college? your 1st class degree would be very valuable im sure.

I dont know all too much about biological or the 'hard sciences', but I think that if you applied for jobs in the education sector they would be more understanding of the merits of your qualification, as oppossed to working at the lowest rung of the ladder with people who see you as an eventual threat to their position. (part of the animosity I think against people with qualifications)

Prospects.ac.uk is a very useful site if you dont know it.

good luck mate.

I really wouldn't recommend going into FE rather than school teaching. It's very much the "Cinderella service" with far lower salaries and fewer prospects than in a secondary school. It's been years since FE colleges were a more civilised environment than secondary schools and with the forthcoming raising of the leaving age they'll become increasingly less so.

Oldernotwiser

Westwardho wrote: »

LOL!

I don't know anything about the benefits system in the UK because I was brought up overseas until I was 14 and since moving here no-one in my family has ever been on any sort of benefits even tax credits or family allowance.

I have already said that I have not held a job because I went straight through education without taking a gap year and during the summers I have worked on academic research or been overseas.

Believe me I have a very thick skin and am involved in the world of work- this may come as a suprise to you but the lecturers, professors, post-docs, fellows, readers, technicians, receptionists and admin staff that I work alongside everyday aren't students but workers just like you! And when I join them on the payroll, I will not take people in or out of my workplace calling me things like 'clueless' like a chippy little child; its nothing to do with having a thick skin its about not wanting people to make judgements about me based on their own silly little prejudices.

Thank you for all of the advice that you have given me.

I thanked you before I read the last part of your post!

Having worked as a (admittedly college) lecturer for years I fully appreciate the academic life, but the thing is, you're not planning to join them on the payroll, are you?

Academia isn't called the "ivory towers " for nothing and you'll find that once you venture outside this sheltered environment that you'll have to put up with people speaking to you in any way they like. You'll be on the lowest rung of any ladder you start to climb and people won't have any problems with reminding you of this.

Outside this environment, many people won't have even heard of a PhD, and they certainly won't be impressed by someone of your age with no work experience whatsoever. People like myself who are telling you these things are actually trying to help, you know.