VIRGIN ONE ACCOUNT - CHANGES TO Ts and Cs

kippygirl

Whilst the ombudsman complaint rumbles on (about not passing on the B of E interest rate changes), I was concerned about the new terms and conditions that were sent to me the other day, entitled "Important Information - changes to your terms and conditions - August 2009".

VO seem to be radically trying to alter the terms of the mortgage. When we took it out, the only condition as to repayment was that you had to pay it all off by retirement. I think they did later do more restrictive mortgages but the deal we signed up to was that you could see-saw up and down as much as you liked until then.

Now, they're trying to change that by saying they can reduce the facility, ask for evidence of your earnings, change your repayment plan etc. All fine and dandy but this wasn't what we agreed at the outset and this was why we have paid a premium price for years for the ultimate in flexibility instead of taking a cheaper, more restrictive deal.

I find it hard to believe that they haven't been advised by their lawyers that such drastic changes in Ts and Cs are likely to be unenforceable but they will probably play the card that customers are deemed to have accepted the terms if they didn't register their objection with VO when the leaflet was sent to them.

Having googled this, I'm amazed that nothing has come up on the internet about this and also I can't find the Virgin One thread about ombudsman complaints for failing to follow the B of E rates. Are VO getting these threads shut down?

Apart from registering a objection to say no I don't consent to these changes, I guess all we can do now is wait and see if they attempt to enforce any unagreed terms. If so, then it's back down the FOS route.

waveneygnome

I agree kippygirl.

When I've had changes of T&C for other financial products, the company usually set out clearly what the differences are to your exisiting T&C. The One Account have not done this - they have issued a completely revised T&C and left customers to guess(?) or rather wade through and try and spot the diffferences. Smacks of sharp practice.

I will complain to them too.

With regards to the Ombudsman complaint about interest rates, I know that they have found in favour of a fellow member georgeone, I think this is the thread below.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....html?t=859611

However I am not sure if there has been any successful resolution - i.e. have The One Account actually done anything to comply with the Ombudsman? If any other member can enlighten us that would be useful.

I don't think any of the threads on this site have 'gone' (for whatever reason!), but simply fellow members have not posted/updated them....they have fallen off the radar.

Request - if any member has any update on their complaint with the One Account, there are at least two of us interested!

Saran_2

I've read through them too. Seems to me they are busy giving themselves lots of room to introduce operating charges and reduce facilities. I guess the concept behind this mortgage is pretty much dead now; no longer is it a customer focused product - just another RBS cash generator.

My FOS complaint is with the adjudicator now, and he has mentioned that other cases are going through. I believe that OA are "in the process" of implementing the first Ombudsman decision against them. They cannot appeal it!

I guess it's just more waiting until a decision.

kippygirl

Yes, our complaint rejected at the adjudicator stage so you have to then exercise your right to appeal to the ombudsman.

musicegbdf

OK , you may have seen my thread elsewhere , but have had an offer in full and final settlement of my complaint , which seems a fair settlement.

The new terms and conditions are however another thing , they are so fundamentally different I am not sure how they feel they will get away with it. I guess they will work on the basis that 90% of people do not read them.
The way I read it they really destroy the whole concept of the one account. This is that you will manage your own affairs and consolidate your debts and savings.
Now with the new system. Say you want to save to pay for a holiday or new car or retirement or whatever. You have your savings offsetting and the facility used is lower than the target , but you know this is because you are going to use it for a future purchase/cost. RBS can then decide to reduce your facility as you are not using it , so you are now stuffed....

The real question is under FSA rules can they make such fundamental changes on a long term contract. As to my personal case am not sure having taken my settlement whether I by default fall into the news terms .?

waveneygnome

Musicegbdf,

Can we ask what basis the settlement was on? I appreciate that FOS is supposed to be looking at each case on its own. But clearly this is case of many individuals all with the same common complaint. Whats to stop RBS from treating/settling each case on a different basis? Nothing....so the harder you argue or fight it the better for you, but for those less well infomred, or who have never heard of this website, or have not even complained (even though they are being mistreated) - tough.

Not a very fair system.

In addition to my FOS complaint with RBS; I have also asked them to clarify.......how many people does it take to complain individually, before the FOS decide if there is a serious a problem with the product/provider, which warrants a full blown investigation into ALL customers accounts.

musicegbdf

Not sure how much I should say in open forum , but will send you a PM with a better idea. Overall I think it is a fair offer.

Back to the T and C , have looked back at the conditions from 2001 and they state they have a right to change conditions with 30 days notice. How much they are allowed to change without it being deemed as "unfair" by the FSA however is another point.
There is no doubt they are trying hard to squeeze people out by what seems to be taking away the flexibilty of the account ( the whole point of the account in the first place).

Saran_2

musicegbdf wrote: »

RBS can then decide to reduce your facility as you are not using it , so you are now stuffed....

Had a quick re-read of Section A: 1.1.1 - 1.1.7, I could be wrong, but it seems that as long as you stick on the straight and narrow and don't drop off the repayment guide, they can't force you to reduce your facility.

They have however introduced a pretty comprehensive set of if's that could trip you up and allow them to reduce the facility -

• must have regular payments into the account
• provide evidence of ability to meet repayment guide
• meet repayment guide or they could provide discipline to achieve the guide by reducing the facility
• any reduction in income

plus from Condition 5

• significant reduction in property value

I guess they will be keeping a close eye on us and one slip...

Paranoid?

musicegbdf

Saran wrote: »

Had a quick re-read of Section A: 1.1.1 - 1.1.7, I could be wrong, but it seems that as long as you stick on the straight and narrow and don't drop off the repayment guide, they can't force you to reduce your facility.

They have however introduced a pretty comprehensive set of if's that could trip you up and allow them to reduce the facility -

• must have regular payments into the account
• provide evidence of ability to meet repayment guide
• meet repayment guide or they could provide discipline to achieve the guide by reducing the facility
• any reduction in income

plus from Condition 5

• significant reduction in property value

I guess they will be keeping a close eye on us and one slip...

Paranoid?

The whole point of the the OA was that we are adults and can run our own affairs. The only real terms were .
1/ It had to be repaid before you retire
2/ You had to take life insurance
3/ you had to have your salary paid into it.
I quote from the blurb they sent out in 2001
"You can pay back as quickly or slowly as you want without penalties or charges - you've got until you retire ".

Put simply this was sold on the basis you could even run it as a interest only mortgage and run the facility up to the limit for most of the term and only pay off at the end. The new terms mean they can stop you doing this and use "the repayment guide" as a big stick. I for one have had great variations against the guide. I have been £40k ahead and I have been £20K behind over the years . The reason , I am using it for what it was designed to do. That is to give me total flexibility over my finances. I know the deal and when I retire it has to be cleared and I am making provision for that elsewhere... These new terms take away that flexibility so I would be better off with a standard interest only mortgage and save elsewhere so I can keep my flexibility via the savings ..

Saran_2

Hi musicegbdf,

I think you have mistaken my intent. The paranoid comment was aimed at myself regarding OA's intentions.

Like you, I have found the flexibility to be the biggest advantage of the OA - especially with managing irregular income and expenditure patterns and I think they are hoping to remove those of us with large balance to facility gaps. More so if we are on better interest terms than those not on the "FOS OA-promise" rate.

I even had a call from OA the other day to "find out how I was getting on", what were my intentions for having a large facility and did I want to reduce it. Answered - flexibility and NO!

Gave some feedback on the "new improved" OA too - the guy seemed surprised! Obviously he doesn't read these forums.

musicegbdf

Saran wrote: »

Hi musicegbdf,

I think you have mistaken my intent. The paranoid comment was aimed at myself regarding OA's intentions.

Like you, I have found the flexibility to be the biggest advantage of the OA - especially with managing irregular income and expenditure patterns and I think they are hoping to remove those of us with large balance to facility gaps. More so if we are on better interest terms than those not on the "FOS OA-promise" rate.

I even had a call from OA the other day to "find out how I was getting on", what were my intentions for having a large facility and did I want to reduce it. Answered - flexibility and NO!

Gave some feedback on the "new improved" OA too - the guy seemed surprised! Obviously he doesn't read these forums.

It's OK Sharan , I wasn't having a pop at you. I am just angry at RBS, no sooner have I won my case against them on interest as they seem to move the goal posts again and just wanted to be sure everyone reading this realizes what RBS are up to.