Credit Report: Inconsistent behaviour from the lender?

[Deleted User]

Hello - another question!

Are there any rules regulating when lenders can mark your credit report?

I'm pursuing a complaint against Abbey through the Financial Ombudsman Service at the moment, trying to get three late payments (1s) and an Arrangement to Pay removed from my credit report.

Having gone through it all though, I've noticed that the late payments recorded against my account don't seem to correspond with the months where I've genuinely paid late - and the arrangement to pay was applied for one month only, on a month where I paid in full and quicker than any other month.

Here's my credit report (first entry is Jan, last entry is August):

0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - AP - 0 - 1 - 0

And here's when I paid (payment due is 26th of each month)*:

Feb - 16/3 (18 days late)
Mar - 28/4 (33 days late)
Apr - 6/5 (9 days late)
May - 4/6 (8 days late)
Jun - 13/7 (17 days late)
Jul - 6/8 (10 days late)
Aug - 2/9 (6 days late)
Sept - Tried to pay today, but told (again) that no payment is due...

February’s payment was 18 days late, but nothing was added to my credit report, whereas April’s payment was just 9 days late and my credit report was affected.
June’s payment was 17 days late, but nothing was added to my credit report, whereas July’s payment was 10 days late and my credit report was affected.
There is no consistency with when Abbey applies late payment markers, as shown above.
An ‘arrangement to pay’ was applied in May even though April and May’s payments were the least late of other months.

Surely if a lender places a late payment marker against your credit report they have obligation to be consistent? They can't say that '8 days' is not 'late' one month, but then '7 days' is the next?

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]*I should point out that I wasn't actually late in paying: I kept calling Abbey to make payment over the phone (having requested direct debit mandates around 15 times previously) and their systems kept showing me as not being behind with payments, thus they kept telling me I didn't need to pay yet.

jonesMUFCforever

What was wrong with paying the paper bill? Online? or over the phone by debit card?
Sorry I must be missing something but to me your whole complaint is a waste of everyone's time and money.

There is something very wrong with this post!

mabski

i dont think its too hard to understand
the guy phones up to pay to be told nothings due waits a while then phones back to be told his payment is now late.
and some months he's really late but no marker is placed,then the next month he pays earlier but a marker is added
seems like really bad customer service and inconsistant reporting to the cra's if you ask me

jonesMUFCforever

I can understand that ............but did OP not get paper statements - which would have showed how much to pay?
This is what is confusing me unless the account was already in Collections etc.

[Deleted User]

It's an Abbey unsecured personal loan, for which there are no paper statements, nor online or text billing*. The account is not in collections - it's just a regular loan that has had payments made to it every month without fail.

The problem in a nutshell: because I'm still waiting for direct debit mandate forms to be sent, I phone up to pay manually by debit card each month, but because of some kind of IT problem at their side their systems display me as not having any payments due, so staff won't take my payment. It's only when I leave it a while that my account DOES show as being due - and, in fact, overdue. When I make payment then, I'm told my account is up-to-date, but in spite of this I keep getting harassing calls from Abbey saying that I missed a payment in February (which is when the direct debits stopped) even though a) I definitely paid February's payment manually (on 16th March) and b) I have made payment in full every month since then - and have been advised by Abbey that if an account is in arrears, payments made to that account are used to clear arrears before being put towards future months (e.g. if I phone up in July to pay July's payment, but February's payment is outstanding, they apply the payment to clear February, rather than July).

It's due the 26th of every month, so I phone up on the 25th of every month to pay.

Abbey tell me - every month - our system shows you are fully up-to-date with payments and no payment is due, so we can't accept a payment from you.

I phone up the 27th - after the payment is due - and get told exactly the same thing: our system shows you as being up-to-date and no payment is due.

So, I phone up a week later - and get told the same thing.

So, I wait a few days and then get a call from collections demanding payment.

This happens EVERY single month without fail. There's some sort of problem with the system that Abbey uses to process payments - and because I don't have direct debits set up (I have requested DD mandate forms around 15 times) I seem to fall into a bit of an IT black hole.

As I said, my complaint is with the FOS now - genuinely, I'm not paying my bills late out of lazyness! I phone up on time every month and keep getting told I cannot make payment as my account is up-to-date and no payment is due!

As an example, I phone yesterday (5th October) to make payment for 26th September (so, clearly I am 9 days late in making payment) and Abbey told me again that my account is up-to-date, no payment is due, so I can't make one.

*As a side note, I have never had any statements for the loan in three years, ever since taking it out. No balances. Nothing.

[Deleted User]

p.s. here's the original thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1920263

And here's my secondary complaint to the FOS:

---

In February 2009 I changed the bank account from which my loan repayments came, so cancelled the direct debit for my personal loan and requested a new direct debit mandate form for my new account. This never arrived – and despite requesting this over 15 times since, none has ever been sent.

Since February 2009, I have contacted Abbey by telephone to make payment manually over the phone each month. Every month I have made payment correctly. I have always asked the customer service advisor whether my account is now up-to-date and I am always told “yes, your account is up-to-date”.

In February, my payment was reversed because I had not received the direct debit mandate form yet, so I called Abbey immediately to make payment manually. This was accepted.

In March, I received a letter from Abbey Collections advising I was one month late with my payments. I called Abbey and was told specifically “no, your account is up-to-date and so you can ignore this letter”.

In April, having made my regular monthly payments manually by phone over the past two months, I received another letter from Abbey, threatening court action and telling me that I was now two months in arrears on my account. I was surprised by this since I hadn’t missed a payment, so I called and was told that this must be an error on their part, since their system showed me as fully up-to-date with my payments. I was told to ignore this letter.

Every month since, I phone up and make payment, and I’m told ‘my account is up-to-date’. I nearly always use the same wording when I ask whether my account is up-to-date and you will see – if Abbey record calls – that the advice I am given each time is the same.

In May/June, I received a phone call from Abbey Collections, threatening court action. I was told that I had not made payment...for February! I explained that I had made payment every month, on time, and that I had been told each time I call that my account is fully up-to-date. Abbey suggested I make a further payment just to make sure, which I did.

In July, I phoned up (from holiday – at a premium rate!) to make payment on my account (still no direct debit mandate form in 5 months of requests) and this went through fine.

In August, I phoned up to make payment and was told that no payment was due, because when I had phoned in July no payment was owing (then), and so that payment had been applied to August. Or, in other words, I paid one month in advance when I didn’t need to!

In September, I checked my credit reports (both Experian and Equifax) and discovered:

Late payments have been recorded against my account for February, March and June.
An ‘arrangement to pay’ has been applied in May.

I sent a letter of complaint on 2nd September (reference: CR1/SW/4291979b) asking Abbey to investigate why:

·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Every time I phone up, I am told that my account is up-to-date and no payment is due
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]When I make a payment each month, I am told each time that my account is up-to-date
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why, when I pay each month, is my payment being applied to future months if Abbey thinks I am behind on previous months (February)?
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Why did Abbey keep requesting payment for February, despite me making several payments since then?

I received a response from Abbey dated 30th September: I am unable to attach the full text from this as it would involve typing out the letter in full, but in summary, the key paragraphs are as follows:

“Each time you have called and made a payment your account has been brought up-to-date. It is not until the next payment falls due that your account then falls behind. Whether you are told that your account is behind or up-to-date is dependent on when in the month you have called.” [bold for emphasis]

“I must apologise for the information given stating that payments that were taken were used towards that month’s instalment rather than clearing the arrears on your account from the previous month. This is incorrect, as our system is setup so that as soon as a payment is received it is applied to clear the arrears on your account”. [ibid]

Today (5th October), I phoned up to make payment for September (26th) and was told:

·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]No payment was due – I am up-to-date

I spoke to the Customer Services Adviser named Charlene and explained to her that this is exactly what I have been told every month since February. As per the first paragraph I have quoted above, Abbey’s response is completely incorrect: I am being told that my account is up-to-date when clearly it is not (and I acknowledge this in this case!).

I asked Charlene to investigate this further and she confirmed that her system showed me as fully up-to-date, so she transferred me to someone in the Complaints Department who told that me that my account was in arrears...from February!

So, in summary:

·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Every month, I phone and make my payments on time and in full: I have never missed a payment
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Every month, once I have paid, I am told that my account is up-to-date
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Most months, before I pay, I am told that my account is up-to-date
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Despite making 9 months worth of payments, I am still ‘in arrears’ for February’s payment, even though a) I have paid this and b) Abbey’s own letter states that any payments are used to clear arrears before being applied to future months!

It is quite clear that there is a problem with the system that Abbey staff use to process payments and inform customers whether accounts are up-to-date, but I fail to understand why Abbey are allowed to mark my credit report with late payments – and place an arrangement to pay – when I have done absolutely nothing wrong. I phone every month to pay, but Abbey tell me I am up-to-date and do not need to pay. When I do pay each month – in spite of them telling me I don’t need to – I am still told I am up-to-date.

I cannot be expected to predict whether Abbey’s system is right or wrong. I have requested a direct debit mandate over 15 times and none has been sent. I am forced to manually make payments and it is not fair for me to be punished because Abbey’s systems give their staff incorrect information.

I have tried to explain this to Abbey several times and have spent over 8 hours in telephone conversations over the past few months trying to demonstrate to Abbey that their systems are wrong. Their own staff acknowledge that their system is accurate. So, why should my credit report be damaged when I have done everything in my power to make payment in full and on-time?

[Deleted User]

I don't want to bore you with the details, but please trust me when I say I haven't done anything wrong here.

I keep trying to pay, but Abbey keep telling me my payment isn't due and my account is up-to-date. When I explain (to them!) that payment is due 26th they just tell me to phone back as they can't accept payment on an account that's up-to-date.

[Deleted User]

The key challenges I'm trying to make here:

Remove late payment markers

Given I have phoned up on-time to pay each month's payment in full every month, it's not my fault that Abbey won't accept my payment. Their systems only seem to show my account as being 'due' for payment after between 8 - 20 days late, by which time it is in collections.

I phone up several times from 25th - 15th of each month so that as soon as they'll let me pay, I do pay, but how can Abbey be allowed to place (1)s against my credit report when it's their own fault that I'm paying late. Maybe if they let me pay...?

As an alternative point, I want to find out whether Abbey is allowed to behave inconsistently in the reporting of information to the CRAs. They have marked my credit report as late (1) for some months, but on other months - when I paid later - they don't. There's no apparent logic to which months they are making as late on my report.

Remove arrangement to pay

Abbey seem - and their response to my complaint seems to suggest this - to have placed an arrangement to pay on my account as a punitive measure for me making two months of slightly late payments.

The arrangement only lasted for one month - May - but this was the month where I paid the fastest. For later months, when I've paid much later, no arrangement to pay has been placed.

I understand from guidance issued by the Information Commissioner's Office to lenders that 'arrangements to pay' should only be issued where the lender has agreed to receive a reduced sum for a short term (under 6 months) from the borrower.

I have not agreed anything with my lender, as I've paid the full amount each month, so further, I'm not convinced they have grounds to place an arrangement to pay on my account, as I'm keeping my side of the credit agreement!

[Deleted User]

LO AND BEHOLD!

I received a call this morning from....Abbey's collections department!

Shocking. Totally shocking.

[Deleted User]

....so, I've made a little bit of progress.

I received a call from Collections just now, asking me to make a late payment for September. I asked them why this problem keeps happening - and why I phoned up yesterday to make payment and was told no payment is due and that I'm up-to-date, only to receive a telephone call the next day from Collections demanding payment.

'Lauren' advised me that Abbey use two different IT systems and that each customer's account is shared across both systems. One is 'larger' than the other; Collections use one system, Customer Services use another.

Each system updates at a different frequency, but both systems take up to 5 days to update. Once one system updates, it then updates the other, which can take a further 5 days on average.

So, my account would show as being fully up-to-date for up to 5 days past due, at which point Collections would flag it as overdue...and it would then take a further 5 days for the other system to update. It would then be a further 'bit of time' (could be any time for 1 day to 10 days) before Collections mark the account as 'active' at which point they start chasing - and when it's marked as 'active' it comes off of the original smaller system (used by Customer Services), so they would see it as being 'up-to-date'.

She acknowledged it was a very confusing system but said that often staff only check one system, when in fact they should check both.

She did also say that they will look into the arrangement to pay as she doesn't think this should have been placed on my account. She said this is only used where customers arrange to pay a reduced sum (e.g. £10 per month) where their ability to repay is compromised, and that I've paid in full every month so this shouldn't have been applied.

Shambolic!

[Deleted User]

More shambles!

I get ANOTHER phone call at 14:20 this afternoon from Abbey Collections telling me I am one month in arrears and need to make a payment.

I explained to her that I paid at 11am this morning, to which she replied "Nope, you are definitely in arrears and I require payment now".

What a totally ridiculous and disorganised business Abbey is.