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Abbey - mistake or discrimination?
Adamschi
Posts: 4 Newbie
Hello everyone, hope you are ok.
1. In January 2009 we have decided to buy new property under 50/ 50 New Built Home Buy (First Time Buyers Initiative) Scheme. It was a shared equity scheme ran by Government, available for people with low income to let them make first step on the property ladder. After meeting with representative of Government Agency we have found out that that Scheme was available for us but purchase price had to be negotiated. We have agreed price with developer. Soon after that, on 26th January we have received Approval of Eligibility and to Select Property from Mercian. On 11th February we have received Authority to Proceed.
2. I have contacted our IFAto find a bank dealing with FTBI and best possible mortgage so after some research he presented us with few deals. One of those was from Abbey National Bank which we have authorised our IFA to apply for on our behalf. He came to our place to collect all paperwork (I made all photocopies while he was waiting: both passports, 6 recent payslips of both of us, Workers Registration Scheme cards, 6 most recent our bank accounts statements).
3. After positive credit check online application was sent with all related paperwork to Abbey.
4. On 12th February Abbey requested from us (via IFA) to provide them with adverse credit information , valuation fee, latest 3 months payslips, latest 3 months personal bank statements which was sent to them on 9th February from our IFA. Sent again on 17th February.
5. On 13th February Abbey requested: Council Tax bills / Bank statements, Explanation of any adverse or extra borrowing – if applicable, 3 months bank statements, Shared equity papers for the property, Evidence of income. On this occasion, Abbey's request also states: “Applicant is non EEA national, to be assessed by an underwriter – will require copy of passport and any visa / right to reside visa”. We are Polish citizens, EEA nationals.
6. In several emails Abbey kept chasing our IFA for same paperwork they have been provided with already on 9th, 17th, 24th February, 2nd March.
7. On 6th March, 1.58 pm I have called Abbeys mortgage line as new customer and I have spoke to chap introduced himself as Craig. I was talking to him until 2.20pm. I have introduced myself as new customer, Polish national, wanted to buy new property. Asked Craig what requirements should I met to be able to apply for mortgage. I have been told that our income should be appropriate to mortgage applied for, need to provide them with last 3 payslips, 6 months bank statements, addresses I have been lived to for last 3 years, proof of employment. Then I have chased him to check if there was nothing about residency permits/ certificates. He kept me for 10 minutes on hold. After he got back to me I have heard that nothing else apart from WRS cards. He also said that he has checked this with competent mortgage advisor.
8. On 6th March I have informed our IFA about my findings and asked him to send complaint to Abbey on our behalf. Sent on the same day with support information taken from the Home Office.
9. On 30th March Abbey replied to complaint where we can read: “I can confirm that I have investigated this matter and would like to take this opportunity to respond. I have referred you case to the senior underwriter and I can confirm that it is Abbeys policy to only accept polish citizens if they can provide proof of right to reside in the UK. Unfortunately the documentation supplied in support of this application was not acceptable to the Abbey and therefore we are unable to process your application.”
10. On 21st April we have sent our complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman and on 8th May we have been confirmed with FOS acknowledgement. On 29th June we have been referred to the Adjudicator at the FOS.
11. At the end of June we have received letter from Abbey dated on 25th June saying: “As you know, we are currently investigating your complaint that you raised with Abbey four weeks ago.” Well, we have raised our complaint on 6th March, almost 4 months earlier.
12. At the end of July we have received letter from Abbey dated on 22nd July saying: “As you know, we are currently looking into your complaint and it has been eight weeks since you first contacted Abbey. I am sorry for the delay while we continue to look into your complaint.” Then they have advised me to contact FOS if do not want to wait any longer which we already did on 21st April.
13. At the end of August we have received letter from Financial Ombudsman Services dated on 13th August, where Adjudicator wrote: “I am writing to set out my assessment of your complaint. (...)Further to my findings, I feel that Abbey has acted fairly and reasonably in the handling of your application. However, Abbey is conscious of the fact that you feel you have been discriminated against. It has therefore asked us to convey its apologies and it would like to offer you £100 as a gesture of good will. In my view this settlement proposal represents a fair and reasonable offer in line with other awards made by the Financial Ombudsman Service in cases that share familiar features. I recommend that you accept it.”
14. We disagreed with above. In 2 emails sent to FOS I have explained what level we are disadvantaged because of Abbeys unwillingness to accept my proof of right to reside in the UK. Also I have informed Adjudicator about my findings in correspondence history between my IFA and Abbey and that Abbey made mistake saying that we are “non EEA citizens” and therefore this error was the beginning of Abbeys failure to take due care to ensure a fair assessment of my application.
15. On 19th September I have received letter from FOS dated on 17th September where Adjudicator wrote: “I am sorry that I did not reach the outcome you were hoping for. (...) I do not feel that Abbey has broken any procedures and ultimately it is a financial institutions choice to lend money to who it wishes. I would like to advise you that the offer that has been made by Abbey is still available. It is my opinion that this settlement proposal is fair and reasonable.” Now I have to reply to the FOS by 1st October.
Looking to hear from you with your advice and opinions. Maybe you have had same situations?
1. In January 2009 we have decided to buy new property under 50/ 50 New Built Home Buy (First Time Buyers Initiative) Scheme. It was a shared equity scheme ran by Government, available for people with low income to let them make first step on the property ladder. After meeting with representative of Government Agency we have found out that that Scheme was available for us but purchase price had to be negotiated. We have agreed price with developer. Soon after that, on 26th January we have received Approval of Eligibility and to Select Property from Mercian. On 11th February we have received Authority to Proceed.
2. I have contacted our IFAto find a bank dealing with FTBI and best possible mortgage so after some research he presented us with few deals. One of those was from Abbey National Bank which we have authorised our IFA to apply for on our behalf. He came to our place to collect all paperwork (I made all photocopies while he was waiting: both passports, 6 recent payslips of both of us, Workers Registration Scheme cards, 6 most recent our bank accounts statements).
3. After positive credit check online application was sent with all related paperwork to Abbey.
4. On 12th February Abbey requested from us (via IFA) to provide them with adverse credit information , valuation fee, latest 3 months payslips, latest 3 months personal bank statements which was sent to them on 9th February from our IFA. Sent again on 17th February.
5. On 13th February Abbey requested: Council Tax bills / Bank statements, Explanation of any adverse or extra borrowing – if applicable, 3 months bank statements, Shared equity papers for the property, Evidence of income. On this occasion, Abbey's request also states: “Applicant is non EEA national, to be assessed by an underwriter – will require copy of passport and any visa / right to reside visa”. We are Polish citizens, EEA nationals.
6. In several emails Abbey kept chasing our IFA for same paperwork they have been provided with already on 9th, 17th, 24th February, 2nd March.
7. On 6th March, 1.58 pm I have called Abbeys mortgage line as new customer and I have spoke to chap introduced himself as Craig. I was talking to him until 2.20pm. I have introduced myself as new customer, Polish national, wanted to buy new property. Asked Craig what requirements should I met to be able to apply for mortgage. I have been told that our income should be appropriate to mortgage applied for, need to provide them with last 3 payslips, 6 months bank statements, addresses I have been lived to for last 3 years, proof of employment. Then I have chased him to check if there was nothing about residency permits/ certificates. He kept me for 10 minutes on hold. After he got back to me I have heard that nothing else apart from WRS cards. He also said that he has checked this with competent mortgage advisor.
8. On 6th March I have informed our IFA about my findings and asked him to send complaint to Abbey on our behalf. Sent on the same day with support information taken from the Home Office.
9. On 30th March Abbey replied to complaint where we can read: “I can confirm that I have investigated this matter and would like to take this opportunity to respond. I have referred you case to the senior underwriter and I can confirm that it is Abbeys policy to only accept polish citizens if they can provide proof of right to reside in the UK. Unfortunately the documentation supplied in support of this application was not acceptable to the Abbey and therefore we are unable to process your application.”
10. On 21st April we have sent our complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman and on 8th May we have been confirmed with FOS acknowledgement. On 29th June we have been referred to the Adjudicator at the FOS.
11. At the end of June we have received letter from Abbey dated on 25th June saying: “As you know, we are currently investigating your complaint that you raised with Abbey four weeks ago.” Well, we have raised our complaint on 6th March, almost 4 months earlier.
12. At the end of July we have received letter from Abbey dated on 22nd July saying: “As you know, we are currently looking into your complaint and it has been eight weeks since you first contacted Abbey. I am sorry for the delay while we continue to look into your complaint.” Then they have advised me to contact FOS if do not want to wait any longer which we already did on 21st April.
13. At the end of August we have received letter from Financial Ombudsman Services dated on 13th August, where Adjudicator wrote: “I am writing to set out my assessment of your complaint. (...)Further to my findings, I feel that Abbey has acted fairly and reasonably in the handling of your application. However, Abbey is conscious of the fact that you feel you have been discriminated against. It has therefore asked us to convey its apologies and it would like to offer you £100 as a gesture of good will. In my view this settlement proposal represents a fair and reasonable offer in line with other awards made by the Financial Ombudsman Service in cases that share familiar features. I recommend that you accept it.”
14. We disagreed with above. In 2 emails sent to FOS I have explained what level we are disadvantaged because of Abbeys unwillingness to accept my proof of right to reside in the UK. Also I have informed Adjudicator about my findings in correspondence history between my IFA and Abbey and that Abbey made mistake saying that we are “non EEA citizens” and therefore this error was the beginning of Abbeys failure to take due care to ensure a fair assessment of my application.
15. On 19th September I have received letter from FOS dated on 17th September where Adjudicator wrote: “I am sorry that I did not reach the outcome you were hoping for. (...) I do not feel that Abbey has broken any procedures and ultimately it is a financial institutions choice to lend money to who it wishes. I would like to advise you that the offer that has been made by Abbey is still available. It is my opinion that this settlement proposal is fair and reasonable.” Now I have to reply to the FOS by 1st October.
Looking to hear from you with your advice and opinions. Maybe you have had same situations?
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Comments
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Abbey don't do non EEA citizens, with permant residency status.
Halifax can consider these.
You can't walk into a chinese takeaway and complain they don't do fish and chips - Abbey don't do what you want them to, end of. They see such cases as higher risk - you won't recognise this, but Abbey base thier criteria on thier real world experience of repossessions.
You IFA (does'nt seem like a mortgage specialist) should have known this on day one. Use a mortgage broker not an IFA.0 -
Non uk National mortgage applications are always prone to problems
It does sound as though your IFA has not checked things through properly with Abbey beforehand
You cannot force somene to lend you money when you do not meet their criteria.
The only thing for you to do is find a different lender that can help.
I would suggest using a different whole of market mortgage adviser to help you do thisI am a Mortgage AdviserYou should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.0 -
Non uk National mortgage applications are always prone to problems
It does sound as though your IFA has not checked things through properly with Abbey beforehand
You cannot force somene to lend you money when you do not meet their criteria.
The only thing for you to do is find a different lender that can help.
I would suggest using a different whole of market mortgage adviser to help you do this
That is fine but also they did not inform us about alternatives on how we can meet their criteria. Also credit check was positive. They kept saying that they need passport and visa/ residency permit. Passports have been sent to them with online application and as EEA nationals we do not need any visa or residency permits to reside in the UK and enjoy life here. Regards0 -
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That is fine but also they did not inform us about alternatives on how we can meet their criteria. Also credit check was positive. They kept saying that they need passport and visa/ residency permit. Passports have been sent to them with online application and as EEA nationals we do not need any visa or residency permits to reside in the UK and enjoy life here. Regards
EEA status will not affect credit score if you have been here long enough, so that is irrelevant.
If you cannot provide the paperwork Abbey are asking for, then that is the problem
The other problem is that the broker did not explain very well, what is being asked and why.
You need to get a different broker to look at this for you.
Forget Abbey and move to the next lender that will help, there are plenty that will (if you know how!)I am a Mortgage AdviserYou should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.0 -
You kept mentioning in your initial post that Abbey were asking for "adverse information" or explanations for "adverse information". It sounds to me like there was potentially some bad credit on your credit files or on bank statements and this is possibly one reason that they were unable to assist.
One unfortunate feature with Abbey is that if they do not like a case they can sometimes drag it out for weeks and months asking for more information rather than just declining it on day 1.0 -
IFA is in fact independent mortgage broker.
An IFA is a financial planner and investments adviser as they key role. A minority of IFAs also do mortgages as a bolt on to that role. So, chances are that if the IFA is doing mortgages as well, you cant really consider them a specialist. Not a problem for mainstream cases but for the niche ones. its going to be harder.
An independent mortgage broker should in theory be the best person to speak to. Not an IFA.I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.0 -
Guys, thank you for your posts however I need to admit, that I was not precised with "IFA is in fact mortgage broker". I should not use IFA in this post, which is giving you the reason to respond. Sorry. Mea culpa.
That company is an indipendent mortgage broker operating within Openwork. They are mortgage brokers. Fact is that they are operating within all financial products as well.
A different story is that they have not informed me that Abbey have sent email to them saying that I am non EEA national, which is not correct at all.
My intention was to hear from you your opinion if Abbey did make a mistake or discriminate against me. I know that I can not force lender to lend me. But I do strong believe that they should make application assesment upon pure facts, not theory, and then make decision. At the end of a day we should be treated as British subjects. Otherwise it is a possible discrimination against EU Regulations. Is it not?
Question is why they did say that we are non EEA, and then demanded Residency Permits from us which is not a legal requirement in this country.
Regards0 -
Guys, thank you for your posts however I need to admit, that I was not precised with "IFA is in fact mortgage broker". I should not use IFA in this post, which is giving you the reason to respond. Sorry. Mea culpa.
That company is an indipendent mortgage broker operating within Openwork. They are mortgage brokers. Fact is that they are operating within all financial products as well.
A different story is that they have not informed me that Abbey have sent email to them saying that I am non EEA national, which is not correct at all.
My intention was to hear from you your opinion if Abbey did make a mistake or discriminate against me. I know that I can not force lender to lend me. But I do strong believe that they should make application assesment upon pure facts, not theory, and then make decision. At the end of a day we should be treated as British subjects. Otherwise it is a possible discrimination against EU Regulations. Is it not?
Question is why they did say that we are non EEA, and then demanded Residency Permits from us which is not a legal requirement in this country.
Regards
Knock this on the head and find a broker who will recommend the right mortgage provider. If Abbey say no, they mean no.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0
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