A car finance question

h1r3z

Ok so I attempted to make a payment through the finance company website for the reduced amount previously arranged. There was a problem with the website which left me wondering if the payment had gone through. It was late (out of office hours) so I left it and rang them the next day to get them to confirm the payment had gone through (or not).
They told me that it wouldn't show yet and I would need to ring back later.
I rang back the next day (today) and the bloke I spoke to (arrogant, pushy git) said that no payment had gone through and proceeded to ask me questions like "what's happening with this account then?" I explained the agreement I had made previously and he snapped back that he was a senior something and that the agreement I previously made "Isn't going to happen".
he said I am being unreasonable to expect them to take half of the originally agreed amount and when I asked him what was reasonable then, he said "to pay your arrears off today and keep to the original agreement". I explained the same to him that I explained to the first person I spoke to (the one I made the agreement with) that I was now unemployed and while I am not able to meet the original agreement I am trying to keep up a reasonable offer of payment. he kept on insisting that my offer wasn't reasonable, talking over me when I tried to explain things & generally not listening to anything I said.

Once again he tried to get me to hand the car over voluntarily, which I said I didn't want to do as I was trying to pay it. He said I would have to go to court then as I was not cooperating and would get bad credit & gain more costs.

That's where it was left.

I intend to seek legal advice, whether I will get free advice I have no idea.

That's the story so far.

~Brock~

h1r3z wrote: »

Ok so I attempted to make a payment through the finance company website for the reduced amount previously arranged. There was a problem with the website which left me wondering if the payment had gone through. It was late (out of office hours) so I left it and rang them the next day to get them to confirm the payment had gone through (or not).
They told me that it wouldn't show yet and I would need to ring back later.
I rang back the next day (today) and the bloke I spoke to (arrogant, pushy git) said that no payment had gone through and proceeded to ask me questions like "what's happening with this account then?" I explained the agreement I had made previously and he snapped back that he was a senior something and that the agreement I previously made "Isn't going to happen".
he said I am being unreasonable to expect them to take half of the originally agreed amount and when I asked him what was reasonable then, he said "to pay your arrears off today and keep to the original agreement". I explained the same to him that I explained to the first person I spoke to (the one I made the agreement with) that I was now unemployed and while I am not able to meet the original agreement I am trying to keep up a reasonable offer of payment. he kept on insisting that my offer wasn't reasonable, talking over me when I tried to explain things & generally not listening to anything I said.

Once again he tried to get me to hand the car over voluntarily, which I said I didn't want to do as I was trying to pay it. He said I would have to go to court then as I was not cooperating and would get bad credit & gain more costs.

That's where it was left.

I intend to seek legal advice, whether I will get free advice I have no idea.

That's the story so far.

Regarding who owns what.............it revolves around title to the goods. until all the payment have been made, the finance company have title.

If you have paid over a third then they need to get a court order in order to obtain possession, unless you are prepared to voluntarily hand the car back.

They are correct in saying that seeking a court order will incur costs, which they can reasonably pass onto you. How much you have already paid counts for little in such cases - the law is pretty clear regarding title. There is every chance that they may only get a suspended order, depending on the level of arrears, but this will only happen if you turn up and explain your case to the judge.

I believe that answers your original question, and would suggest constructive dialogue with the lender as a sensible course of action, although from what you have said this may be difficult!

h1r3z

Thanks Brock.

I emailed them and asked about the character that was ranting on the phone to me & changing previously made agreements & I had a reply within an hour including a phone number to speak directly to the collections manager.
The collections manager said that the person I spoke to was a "little premature" in throwing the taking it court line into the conversation and that they would obviously prefer to sort it out amicably with me, which is all I have wanted from the start.

So after all the rubbish on the phone earlier with Mr. Bolshie it now stands as it did before. I pay the reduced amount and speak to them next month to review the situation.

My personal thought on this matter is that these are a typically aggressive company that try threat tactics to scare vulnerable people into doing it the way they want. I am not a vulnerable person and made that clear when I told them "OK then if you're not prepared to listen to me or speak about it reasonably (which is what everyone always suggests you do when you owe money... so much for that), then you'll have to take it to court". Nothing else would have made any difference.

As I stated before (and told the manager), I am not trying to get out of my debt. I am simply in a situation that prevents me from paying the full amount originally agreed. I made an offer which was initially accepted, then before the first payment was even sent to them THEY changed their mind, now they have changed it again.

I call 'dodgy'.

PNPSUKNET

this has welcome all over it

h1r3z

I'm back & this still continues.

PNPSUKNET - What?

The situation is now that I decided (after being told repeatedly by Carlyle that I 'obviously can no longer afford the vehicle') to voluntarily hand the car over to them.
They came and collected the car and maybe a week later I had another letter from them stating that there was still an outstanding sum to pay. This is due to the ridiculously low price they apparently sold the car for.
That's not really what annoys me as I expected it, but what does annoy me is the following. I would also appreciate anyone's comment who is knowledgeable in this matter.

The finance company have passed the remaining debt on to a collection company (who I personally believe is another branch of the finance company. They have the same attitude, don't listen when I talk, just keep talking over me on the phone etc..) who sent me a letter with the amount outstanding etc. All perfectly normal. I had arranged on the phone to pay them £20 pm, which they agreed to. I asked for proof of sale for the car, which I believed I am entitled to, and they said they would send that along with the standing order mandate for repayment and an expenditure form. I didn't think anything of that at first, but now I'm wondering why they need an expenditure form when they have already agreed a payment plan.

Anyway, after a lot of messing about (they claimed they left me 4 messages on my phone, which I don't believe they did. I don't believe my phone just decided to play up when they ring, but not for anyone else) I finally filled in the mandate and sent it back.

Today I had a message on the answerphone (Oh, it works for them now, how strange) from the collection people and it turns out that while they have the mandate they have not yet received the expenditure form. I told them they didn't send one, to which he replied he would send out another one. When I asked him what the point of the expenditure form was as we already made an agreement, he told me it's because Carlyle finance want the debt cleared within the year.

So what I'm asking now is: Am I legally obliged to provide a collection company with all my personal finance details? Particularly after we have made an arrangement for payment which has been accepted and they have presented the mandate to the bank.

What gets me is that they constantly said, over & over that I couldn't afford the vehicle and should give it back to them when I was paying £50 pm while unemployed, now they've had the car back they are saying they want the money within the year, well that will mean paying at least £50 pm to the collection people. If I couldn't afford it when I had the car, how do they assume I can afford it now I don't have the car.

End result of all this will be that they have had almost all the money for the car and the car back. All but £500 and I will have paid for the car and they had that back too.

I know it makes no difference, but surely they would have been better off to let me keep the car and continue paying the £50 pm that I was.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

standupguy

looking through the thread it seems it was not established the type of finance - hp or loan ? This could be significant in your next course of action.

If it was HP and you had paid half, as you say, then a better course of action at the time would have been vt where your remaining liability would only have been to the amount of arrears at the time of vt and if this is the case, Carlyle played you into a voluntary surrender which was in their favour financially and this would be something you can complain against.

They cannot force you into letting them have your financial details - just say no

h1r3z

Thanks for the reply, standupguy.

I have to say that I'm not entirely sure what kind of finance it was. I saw the vehicle in a local garage, asked them if they did finance and they said yes. I filled out the forms and 2 days later drove the car away.
Carlyle did ask me at the time if I wanted to pay for protection, but I declined as I took the protection with a credit card and it made no difference whatsoever when I became unemployed. Maybe I should have taken it, but it just seems like more to pay for no reason and now I know what carlyle are like, I doubt it would have made a difference.

When you say I can complain against the voluntary surrender that I played into, what do you mean? Who would I complain to?

Thanks for saying they cannot force me to provide my financial details, that is what I wanted to know mainly at this point.

As for them saying they want the debt cleared within the year.. that simply isn't going to happen no matter what they do.


Thanks again for the reply.

standupguy

You should dig out your copy agreement and see what it says at the top.

Does it say hire purchase?

Otherwise phone Carlyle and ask them to tell you the type of agreement.

If it was HP, as I said, a better course of action at the time would have been to vt rather than vs.

What was the amount of arrears at time of letting the car go and how does that compare to the amount they want from you now?

If say it was HP and you had paid a half of the hp price and the arrears at the time was say £400 but they now want say £2000 from you it would have been in your interets to go the vt option and this was not explained to you at the time.

Your redress is with Carlyle in the first instance and then FOS if they cannot resolve your complaint.

If this turns out to be the case I suspect that they will write off the balance rather than risk this going to FOS - but it all depends on whether it was HP and whether you had paid half the total hp price?

euronorris

If you no longer have the paperwork, then you need to ask them for a copy, which they are legally obliged to provide.

There are some template letters for that on the site somewhere. Not sure where though. Anyone?

h1r3z

OK, so I'm not even sure I had a copy of the agreement. What a nightmare. Anyway, I'll get in touch with Carlyle and see what i can get out of them, though from previous encounters with them I'm sure it will be nothing but abuse and attitude.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is FOS?

Thanks.