pension information

dunstonh

Putting gold by as part of a retirement savings pot is no risk. The risk is treating gold as a speculative asset to get rich quick.

So, you view that investing into an asset that can go up and down in value as being no risk.

How does that compare to any other asset that goes up and down in value?
Why do you call the stockmarket, that goes up and down, high risk but gold, that goes up and down, safe?

Gold has the potential to lose half its value or even two thirds of its current value. How is that safe?

mr_fishbulb

Gold pays no dividends/interest. It is also susceptible to GBP/USD currency fluctuations.

mambury

blimey...... I think I'm even more confused now!:D

The way I see it I feel that DH should start a pension (work scheme with employer contributions) at a low level to get the ball rolling and then look at other ways to invest too in order to spread the risk.

After talking to DH, I think I understand his reluctance to start a pension as he rather risk averse and his dad (who happens to work for the same company) has seen quite a fall in his pension fund over the last year or two (along with the rest of the country, but DH doesn;t see that!!). I tried to explain that his dad had everything in S&S and that isn't always the only way to invest in a pension and that he would be mad to turn his nose up at the employer contributions, but hey-ho he's a man who doesn;t listen.

We have rather a long car journey on Saturday (in excess of 4 hours:eek:) so guess what the topic of conversation will be!

Thanks to all that posted, please feel free to carry on posting as I value everyones opinion!

Ta

Mambury

dunstonh

After talking to DH, I think I understand his reluctance to start a pension as he rather risk averse and his dad (who happens to work for the same company) has seen quite a fall in his pension fund over the last year or two (along with the rest of the country, but DH doesn;t see that!!).

Did he see his pension go up every year in the 5 years before that?
Has he seen his pension go up about 20-40% in the last 3 months?

If he is concerned about risk, then he should use investments that are appropriate to his risk. Risk is not on/off. It is a sliding scale. Every option, including cash savings, has some form of risk.

If the employer contributes, then its free money. You would be a fool not to take it.

DiggerUK

dunstonh wrote: »

So, you view that investing into an asset that can go up and down in value as being no risk.How does that compare to any other asset.....
Why do you call the stockmarket, high risk, but gold safe?
Gold has the potential to lose its value.

I accept classical economists theories of value creation, i.e., that only labour creates value/wealth, as being correct.
So I make a big distinction between value and price.
Even in this day and age, producing gold is a labour intensive operation, that is were it gets it's value. That's were anything gets it's value.

Prices go up and down in line with the supply and demand graphs we all studied in economics. That's just doing what it says on the tin, prices going up and down, nothing to do with value.

Unlike gold, currencies, stocks, bonds and gilts can disappear in a flash, never to return.
Gold has no risk of disappearing in a flash. (Apocalypse excluded.)
Simple, just how I like things.

TMFTP

mambury wrote: »

blimey...... I think I'm even more confused now!:D

The good news is, if you think that, you're LESS confused.

At least you now have an understanding of how complex the investment decisions can be, and how conflicting and biased "unauthorised advice" can be.

You're starting to understand your limitations, and can decide if you want to educate yourself or get help where you need it.

Good on you.

DD4

DiggerUK wrote: »

I accept classical economists theories of value creation, i.e., that only labour creates value/wealth, as being correct.
So I make a big distinction between value and price.
Even in this day and age, producing gold is a labour intensive operation, that is were it gets it's value. That's were anything gets it's value.

Prices go up and down in line with the supply and demand graphs we all studied in economics. That's just doing what it says on the tin, prices going up and down, nothing to do with value.

Unlike gold, currencies, stocks, bonds and gilts can disappear in a flash, never to return.
Gold has no risk of disappearing in a flash. (Apocalypse excluded.)
Simple, just how I like things.

Eventually though you will have to stop hoarding the Gold and start selling it to pay for your retirement (the last time I looked, my council didn't accept 2 ounces of Gold dust in payment for Council tax). When you come to sell it there is a chance that you are selling it at a lower price than you bought at, especially given the dealer's fee when buying and again when selling.

If you sell at a cheaper price than you buy, where is the safety? The value of anything is simply what people are prepared to pay for it at the time when YOU need to sell.

DiggerUK

DD4 wrote: »

The last time I looked, my council didn't accept gold dust in payment for Council tax.

If you sell cheaper than you buy, where is the safety? The value of anything is what people are prepared to pay at the time YOU need to sell.

My council doesn't take gold in any form for it's poll tax, you should consider yourself lucky that you are only unable to pay in gold dust.

Are you familiar with the phrase about people "knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing". Price is not the same as value.
I will be a very unhappy bunny, if in 10 or more years time we sell our gold at a lower price.
We can't sort out the answer to that today, the results won't be in for a while yet.

Going back over the long history of gold I'm sure we will be OK.
But with a past performance of only a few thousand years I could be calling future performance a bit early.

marklv

As well as gold it may be good to invest in silver, as the growth potential is higher. The risk is still there, though.

bendix

DiggerUK wrote: »

I will be a very unhappy bunny, if in 10 or more years time we sell our gold at a lower price.
We can't sort out the answer to that today, the results won't be in for a while yet.

.

In other words, you are finally accepting that there is a risk that that lower price can happen.

Ipso factor, gold is NOT a no-risk investment, and your previous posturings to the contrary are palpable nonsense. It has happened many times before in those thousands of years you mention, and it will happen many times in the future.

Good luck.