Petrol prices versus the environment

golddustmedia

I get really naffed off about government/central decisions regarding the taxation of motorcars/petrol as it takes no account of rural affairs.

Having lived near London until recently I agree that transport in the London area is bad and persons should be encouraged to use the large volume of public transport on offer.

However I now live in Devon where there essentially is no public transport for many. In fact getting to my work just cannot be done without a car. Add to this now the massively high fuel costs and just going to work starts to become a very very expensive activity. So much so it's almost not worth it!

Can you imagine that daft scenario? Considering leaving a perfectly good job simply because it costs too much to get there!!??

My work is 35 miles from home, an annual mileage of 17000 miles just to/from a place of work. This costs me £50 per week on petrol alone. Living rurally it's a choice of work there or dont work. I would happily take the train if it went there, ironically there is a train line along my route to work however you cannot get a train from my home town to my work town!

I agree the government doesn't want to give up tax on petrol, but something has to be done. After all we're being double taxed on it anyway! We get taxed on our income, then use the money leftover to buy fuel to go to work!

DanT_3

Where I live in Devon People need there cars to get to work, take children to school do there shopping. We cannot avoid the price rises as our car use is essential. All the goverment is doing is using the environment as an excuse to gain more tax out of us.
The usage of cars remains the same only the goverment gets more money.
Until public transport is improved or cars are made that do not pollute then people will just have to keep paying extra fuel tax to the goverment which is bad for tour pocket and our economy.
If they were interested in saving the environment they would cut pollution from industry, improve public transport and encourage the research into clean cars. Which they will never do as there is no tax currently on public transport or water say to run your clean car on and therefore no tax revenue for the goverment if they did do this.
They recieve enough tax already but just waste it we get no results for our hard earned tax.
They are only interested in the short term of there period in office and not the future of the environment for our children.
Whatever the cost pollution should be the main priority as there is no point being wealthy now if we destroy the world for our children in twenty years time.
I would also like to point out that we pay council tax and road tax so howcome people think tax on fuel is for the roads? What is road tax for then?
I recently visited america too and for every item we recycle or bit of fuel we save they must use 10 times the amount with there massive 5litre taxis and throw away plastic plates etc in cafes. Thats where saving the environment should start as compared to them our countries pollution is tiny.
One more point i'd like to see if any one has an anwser to; if tax is a percentage of our income and our income generaly increases each year. Why should the tax rates ever need increasing in the budget as the tax recieved each year by the goverment increases annualy pro rata.
The only reason I can see is they have overspent on there budget and are ripping us off again.

Dalavich

I live 28 miles from work, and there is no public transport.

Fuel is £1 a litre!

Why not set aside postcodes for petrol stations and charge an appropriate tax level for each station.

Those in built up areas, get higher taxed, and those in rural get less tax.

Thus also saving small private garages in the Highlands which are closing down at 1 every 10 days!

Does this seem sensible?

Andy_Davies

Tax on fuel is used to raise general revenue, it doesn't get allocated to spending on public transport alone, it get's spent on benefits, education, health etc.

If the tax on fuel is cut, the money would have to be raised elsewhere - do you want income tax, NI or VAT to go up?


I'd agree with the suggestion of merging road tax in with fuel duty (at least for car's and vans - not sure about HGVs) as it's an easy to collect tax.

The other thing I'd do is scrap red diesel for farmers - tractors pollute the environment just as much as cars, so why should they be a special case?

MORPH3US

poorgraduate wrote:

unless there is a reliable bus service that picks you up from your door (when you want) and drops you off where you want to be

You raise two very seperate issues there!

A "reliable bus (public transport) service" is definately what is needed in this country and what should be provided but has been neglected for years by governments!!

However a bus service that "picks you up from your door (when you want) and drops you off where you want to be" is more commonly known as a taxi! People who don't use busses because they don't pick up at their door are pure lazy!!! I could understand if you said "within a mile of your front door"!!!

M

golddustmedia

Andy_Davies wrote:

If the tax on fuel is cut, the money would have to be raised elsewhere - do you want income tax, NI or VAT to go up?

Perhaps this really strikes the larger issue in the UK today, that (generally speaking) household incomes are not high enough to support average cost of living.

Think about this rationally;

• these days a home often costs 7 times or more your income (when my parents bought at my age it was just 3 times annual income).
• Public transport is lacking/uncoordinated/expensive leading to reliance on a car.
• Most food is imported and national prices pretty much at the mercy of a couple of supermarkets.
• Household utilities/council tax are at their highest for years.
• Realistically we should be saving for private pensions as the state one will most likely not support us.

Despite cost of living escalating year after year, salaries have just not kept pace. To the point that now many household incomes are same/less than cost of living leading us to hide the truth from ourselves by taking loans/finance options that leave you worse off over time. Think about this; last time you got a pay raise if it was anything less than inflation over the period between raises then it was actually a pay cut!

Martin has noted in the Carol Vorderman thread that British debt is £1,100,000,000,000 perhaps this is because we simply cannot afford to get by without it?

ravenlighte

One of the things that always amazes me are folks attitudes about global warming and climate change. I have been studying this very subject now for over 8 years:eek: and am baffled by the misconceptions the general public have.

The use of cars is not a primary cause of global warming, but is the one thing every car driver can do something about. We can also reduce CO2 produced by planes by flying less. Volcanos do produce CO2, but also cause cooling from ash and particulate in the atmosphere. So it kinda balances things out.

Methane gas is the main culprit, but much of it also comes from the melting of the Russian permafrost, caused by global warming. Global warming also causes increased atmospheric water vapour because warmer weather means more evapotranspiration. It is a feedback loop. As far as the Hydrogen engine goes, there is also the potential to use a condenser, thereby converting the water vapour back to plain old water.

I am amazed that many still think global warming and climate change are a) a figment of some scientists imagination b) the gov'ts way of extracting yet more taxes c) something perfectly natural that has been happening for millions of years. I think this is where the disinformation lies. :mad: Global corporations getting fat off unsuspecting consumers, by telling them these kinds of stories. Wait until the 'Alternative Fuel' thing really takes off. See how fast those same companies suddenly start scaremongering just to sell their latest Hydrogen powered cars or solar powered bikes, and such like. The only problem then will be, it will be too late to actually do anything about it. The evidence comes down overwhelmingly on the side of humans being the cause of global warming.

I personally support a massive increase in tax on both petrol and aviation fuels. The only way we will change our reliance on fossil fuels and our contribution to global warming, is by getting it where it hurts, in the wallet.

If you drive or fly, then you should pay for the priviledge.

PS I am a car owner...not one of those infamous anti car campaigners.

ravenlighte

Andy_Davies wrote:

Tax on fuel is used to raise general revenue, it doesn't get allocated to spending on public transport alone, it get's spent on benefits, education, health etc.

If the tax on fuel is cut, the money would have to be raised elsewhere - do you want income tax, NI or VAT to go up?


I'd agree with the suggestion of merging road tax in with fuel duty (at least for car's and vans - not sure about HGVs) as it's an easy to collect tax.

The other thing I'd do is scrap red diesel for farmers - tractors pollute the environment just as much as cars, so why should they be a special case?

Those farmers produce your food unfortunately. If it is too expensive for them to do so, we will have to rely entirely on imports, and that will really make things expensive. Once again, the poorest will suffer.

I think the gov't should scrap duty on bio-diesel. Even if you make it yourself, you still have to pay tax on it...ridiculous!! Way to encourage greener fuel ey!

arniel

People who bang on about taxing cars off the road seem to be under some sort of delusion that all motorists do is drive around and around as a hobby. It should be quite obvious by now that raising tax to stupid levels is not going ot do anything to reduce car usage, and the only people that it will affect are the poor and those who are not well serviced by public transport. Hint: people do live out of range of an Oyster card!
For most of us, our car usage is a necessity, and nothing short of returning to a feudal way of life where the furthest anyone travels is to the next village is going to change this. That concept may suit the soap-dodging eco-fascists amongst us, but the reality is that the vast majority of people are not going to let go of their standard of living, so we'd better look for alternatives.
If, and it is a big if, we need to be carbon-neutral, then the only practical alternative fuel is nuclear. Like all other non-carbon producing systems, it does consume CO2 in the ancillary stages of production (e.g. collection of the raw material), but it is the only source that can be guarenteed when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing etc. etc.
Having just been to the dentist has nothing to do with my mood, m'kay?!

nelly_2

Cut all petrol tax and put the tax burden on Premiership footballers boy bands and Richard and Judy.