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Alan Johnson "I don't think were through the worst"
Graham_Devon
Posts: 58,560 Forumite
Just got the TV on at the moment while I wake up, and Alan Johnson is on doing an interview.
The interviewee has just asked him if we are through the worst of the recession, to which Alan Johnson said "No, I don't think were through the worst yet".
He then talked about seeing more bad labour and manufacturing figures.
He also said Alistair Darling has steered the UK through all this so far. Also mentioned was (apparently) advice not to alter the VAT level at the end of the year.
It's the first time I have heard a politician saying something like this, who sits on the labour benches. The question was raised because Gordon Brown is telling the unions we are recovering.
If Alan Johnson is saying this, which is obviously outside of the party line, is there something in it? It should be on iplayer later on I guess.
The interviewee has just asked him if we are through the worst of the recession, to which Alan Johnson said "No, I don't think were through the worst yet".
He then talked about seeing more bad labour and manufacturing figures.
He also said Alistair Darling has steered the UK through all this so far. Also mentioned was (apparently) advice not to alter the VAT level at the end of the year.
It's the first time I have heard a politician saying something like this, who sits on the labour benches. The question was raised because Gordon Brown is telling the unions we are recovering.
If Alan Johnson is saying this, which is obviously outside of the party line, is there something in it? It should be on iplayer later on I guess.
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Comments
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A refreshingly honest response from a politician and an accurate one imo. I think a lot of people are being lulled / encouraged into a false sense of optimisim.
The fact is we are saddled with a massive amount of debt - personal, corporate and government - which we need to pay off. Unless and until that is done, it is simply unrealistic and misleading to think that we can somehow return to business as normal.
The harsh, unpalatable reality is that we all face a prolonged period of anaemic growth (at best). And as Stephen Hester pointed out in a recent interview with Robert Peston, any premature return to rapid growth would merely give rise to further problems.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The interviewee has just asked him if we are through the worst of the recession, to which Alan Johnson said "No, I don't think were through the worst yet".
That's true. This shower have another 10 months left to wreck the country's future even further.0 -
A refreshingly honest response from a politician and an accurate one imo. I think a lot of people are being lulled / encouraged into a false sense of optimisim.
He's a politician, he has an agenda. Everything that is said by any politician is carefully calculated to further that agenda.The fact is we are saddled with a massive amount of debt - personal, corporate and government - which we need to pay off. Unless and until that is done, it is simply unrealistic and misleading to think that we can somehow return to business as normal.
There seems to be an irrational aversion to debt by some on these boards..... Of course some types of debt are bad, but some types of debt are essential to achieve goals in life and a useful tool.
Personal debt in the UK is hardly excessive.
Unsecured debt only averages 9K per household, (20K if you exclude those houses with no debt) and all debt including mortgages only averages 58K per household or so. With average household income of 35K, this is well within acceptable limits.
Even the average new mortgage is still only somewhere around 130K, so even those taking on new debt are still within sensible multiples of the average household income of 35K, on average.
Corporate debt is as often as not a direct result of legislative conditions that favour debt for tax reasons, and if it is more profitable for a company to operate with debt than without there is no reason it should not continue to do so.
Government debt is certainly higher than would be desired in an ideal world, but it is not even the highest in Europe, let alone the world, and as Moody's has recently confirmed, despite earlier rumours, UK debt is not bad enough to threaten our AAA rating. The Tories will no doubt slash the debt for idealogical reasons, despite being warned recently even by conservative (with a small c) economists such as Roger Bootle not to over react and threaten growth by doing so.The harsh, unpalatable reality is that we all face a prolonged period of anaemic growth (at best). And as Stephen Hester pointed out in a recent interview with Robert Peston, any premature return to rapid growth would merely give rise to further problems.
In your opinion. There are many who disagree. The biggest threat to a return to much needed growth is the premature slashing of debt for idealogical desires, rather than economic neccessities.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Just got the TV on at the moment while I wake up, and Alan Johnson is on doing an interview.
The interviewee has just asked him if we are through the worst of the recession, to which Alan Johnson said "No, I don't think were through the worst yet".
s.
Perhaps he was talking about lagging indicators like unemployment (being a an ex union leader).'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The biggest threat to a return to much needed growth is the premature slashing of debt for idealogical desires, rather than economic neccessities.
OK, let me qualify my earlier remarks. Yes, of course, a certain amount of debt is both necessary and indeed desirable. And I certainly would not advocate a premature and ideologically-driven slashing of debt with the end result that we quash any hope of recovery.
It seems to me the most sensible approach would be something along the following lines, as advocated by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in the Telegraph:
There are three ways out of our mess. We can pursue 1930s liquidation that purges debt through mass default. Such Calvinist destruction cannot be imposed on a modern democracy.
We can devalue debt by deliberate inflation. This will backfire as bond vigilantes boycott government debt - unless rigged by capital controls or "administrative measures". You see where this leads.
Or we can try to right the ship by paying down our debts, very slowly, by sweat and toil, navigating a treacherous course between the Scylla and Charybdis of the twin-flations, for as long as it takes. This is the only responsible course left we as we face the devastating consequences of our own credit delusions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6146859/Does-the-world-have-the-courage-to-deal-with-its-debts.html0 -
Yes I agree I dont think the worse is over at least for many people. Some people are doing quite well out of recession not all of it is legal or moral but thats another story0
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It has been said many times we get what we deserve which is why unfortunately the CONservatives will win the next election.ffacoffipawb wrote: »That's true. This shower have another 10 months left to wreck the country's future even further.0 -
Since when has debt become desirable? what planet are you people on...It is nice to see the value of your house going up'' Why ?
Unless you are planning to sell up and not live anywhere, I can;t see the advantage.
If you are planning to upsize the new house will cost more.
If you are planning to downsize your new house will cost more than it should
If you are trying to buy your first house its almost impossible.0 -
Since when has debt become desirable? what planet are you people on...
without debt there would be no railways, no gas supply , no electricity , no mobile phones, no supermarkets, no transportation industry, no airplanes, no cars, no coal, no oil, no clean water/sewerage systems, little housing etc etc
all were built of a sea of debt
what planet do you live on ?0
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