Tribunal Process

Soubrette

Hi all,

I haven't been on so much as my tribunal is going through (slowly) with much correspondence between them and the ex with regard to information that he is supposed to provide which he feels is irrelevant or intrusive.

Brief overview: The ex is a director of a ltd company, he takes minimum wage salary and the rest as dividends. His income in any given year can range from £60000 to £120000. I originally did not ask for any maintenance so he had four years to voluntarily look after his children financially and gave a couple of thousand towards them both not each, getting more miserly each year (I honestly thought he'd continue looking after his children whom he used to adore). After some worrying developments and a long conversation went through CSA to whom, surprise surprise he declared a minimum wage salary. Applied for a variation which failed and then applied to go down the Tribunal route - this is still following due process :rolleyes:

However, he has now provided about 75% of what has been asked for and it is clear to me that he is increasing his debt rather than taking money from his Ltd company. The children are teenagers so he only has 2 years of support for one left and four for the other one. After child maintenance ends he can then get out all his money from the Ltd Company and pay off his debt with a nice surplus.

Should I write to the Tribunal and ask that this aspect be investigated?

He is also refusing as a matter of principle to divulge his partners income and expenditure but I am almost certain that she earns less than him so it would be in his interests to divulge it. We are not on friendly terms, he and I, but the point of going to the CSA was not to screw him out of as much money as I can but to get the fair share of his income (as deemed by Parliament) to be paid for the benefit of his children. I'm toying with the idea of emailing him and telling him that it may be to his benefit if he does divulge her details if she earns less than him but my husband thinks I'm crazy. He feels that the ex should be doing his own research but more importantly that anything I say will be distrusted and cause even more upset anyway.

So in brief - should I let the Tribunal come to its own decision on the information presented?

Should I contact the ex by email and give him information that may be to his benefit but will almost certainly be distrusted and disbelieved?

Sou

Blonde_Bint

Hi Sou,

I think only you know your ex. I have been in a position where (im an NRPP) we couldnt do right for doing wrong so the way I look at it now is:

I dont think i'm as nice and helpful as I was many years ago, I dont bend over backwards to help anymore either, I got no thanks for my efforts anyway and now I have a more peaceful life.

For me I wouldnt think anyone would think any the less of you if you just left it alone and let him sort it out for himself.

Blonde Bint = in agreement with your DH

I would not be in a rush to prod the sleeping beast.

bdt1

Sadly I'm with Blonde Bint, I too as a NRPP have genuinely tried to be chief peace keeper, and look at both PWC and NRP issues, all efforts were alas thrown in my face on many occasions by the PWC, so as she says, only you know your ex, but where the CSA and money are concerned trust is a very delicate issue.

Follow your head, not your heart.

Soubrette

Thanks for the response guys - I thought I knew the ex, I thought he would always look after his children no matter what he thought of me but I have been proved wrong again and again (not just financially). I also thought that by giving him the choice of where to spend his money on the girls and have an 'open door' attitude to access, that we could remain amicable - oh well at least I tried :rolleyes:

In short my heart says tell him - if it were some unknown poster on here then I would certainly tell them, all these things have an effect on what is fair proportion of his salary.

My head says leave well alone - he has access to the internet as well as his accountant and I can only make things worse.

But my heart also says that I'm a better person than him - he has tried to con the girls out of their money for the last year or so but I don't want to do the same to him by not divulging material facts.

I'm of a mind to write to the Tribunal and explain that the ex is probably unaware that in certain circumstances disclosure of his partner's details would be beneficial to his case.

I could do this at the same time as pointing out the vast increase in debt over the past year

Sou

bdt1

Ok, as a NRPP I have always had major issues with divulging my salary, it just seems a huge intrusion, I'm not a parent of these children, so why divulge such personal information, it is the responsibility of my husband the NRP and his ex to support their children. In my case I was backed into a corner by a Judge at Tribunal, who stated that I must declare my earnings, I was furious as there is NO legal obligation for me to do this, yet in the end I did so, as the CSA would have made whatever assumption they pleased regarding my wages, maybe they would have assumed I have a wage like Richard Branson? I think probably, if it benefitted their case, so I was left with no choice.

If you get as far as Tribunal, they will force the NRPP to declare income, or face the consequences in any relevant assessment. Sad and intrusive, but true, otherwise if not, you'll be in the money - for the children of course - no offence meant.

Soubrette

bdt1 wrote: »

Ok, as a NRPP I have always had major issues with divulging my salary, it just seems a huge intrusion, I'm not a parent of these children, so why divulge such personal information, it is the responsibility of my husband the NRP and his ex to support their children. In my case I was backed into a corner by a Judge at Tribunal, who stated that I must declare my earnings, I was furious as there is NO legal obligation for me to do this, yet in the end I did so, as the CSA would have made whatever assumption they pleased regarding my wages, maybe they would have assumed I have a wage like Richard Branson? I think probably, if it benefitted their case, so I was left with no choice.

If you get as far as Tribunal, they will force the NRPP to declare income, or face the consequences in any relevant assessment. Sad and intrusive, but true, otherwise if not, you'll be in the money - for the children of course - no offence meant.

No offence taken.

I have to admit that in my experience you are a very rare NRPP - after reading posts from people who deeply and profoundly do not wish to divulge their income on point of principle - but then quickly change their mind when they realise actually it may actually lead to a reduction in maintenance.

Unfortunately I know my ex well enough to know that he is assuming that a greater household income means a higher maintenance payment - he does not realise that it is about allocating costs. It seems wrong that this is not being made clear to him so he (and she) can make their own minds up in the light of all evidence.

As to any money - my future plans do not involve boob jobs or fabulous holidays, I shall see nary a penny, directly anyway . See this post for my thoughts on what to do with any 'windfall'

However, your post has underlined my thoughts that it is a minefield best left as their business. I still feel like a bit of a cheat though

Sou

Blonde_Bint

Dont feel like a cheat because you are not (a cheat that is)

Soubrette

Blonde_Bint wrote: »

Dont feel like a cheat because you are not (a cheat that is)

Awww thanks Blondie (you're too nice to be a bint )

My short link doesn't seem to work in my post above so here is the actual links: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1921815&highlight=

I wonder if that will work :rolleyes:

Sou

kelloggs36

Certainly make your concerns known to the tribunal - provided they actually listen to you, they will decide if it is worth asking for more info from him.

CMAC_2

Write you concerns in the form of a statement. begin each sentance with I submit xxxxxxxx and the reason why.

Use a covering letter asking the Clerk to the Tribunal to place the statement before the duty/ region judge with view of issuing additional directions it they feel it appropriate.