The 10:10 Climate Change Pledge. Will you be signing up?

Cardew

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But I'd rather take action and be proven wrong, than to do beggar all and find out later that something could have been done about it.

What action would that be then?

jamtart6

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But I'd rather take action and be proven wrong, than to do beggar all and find out later that something could have been done about it.

I do agree with this, but until EVERYONE stops burning fossil fuels I think the small people are not going to be doing enough. I agree it can't harm to try, but not to extract money from people for green taxes, carbon offsetting etc. its a load of rubbish!

P__G

I have signed up - thanks for the post

jamtart6

What caused previous, well documented episodes of global warming ? What caused the last ice age - only 10,000 years ago, to retreat ? Neanderthals building coal fired power stations ?

What an image that would be! No, previous glaciations/inter-glacials have been induced by natural climatic fluctuations. Solar radiation, volcanic eruptions, Milankovitch cycles can all alter the natural climate. No one disputes this fact, no one disputes that natural climate change is occurring right now - but it isn't the sole cause of it. Something is happening to make it warm faster and at a higher magnitude than before - since most of it has happened since the industrial revolution, it is logical to think that it might be human activity.

He warned that sea levels will rise and the Arctic will be ice free in 30 years.

Oh dear. I didn't hear that :cool: Arctic ice melting is a worry for the ecosystems there, and the poor old polar bears, but in terms of sea level rise, it can melt til the cows come home and the sea levels won't rise. However, the melting of the Antarctic cap IS a worry as it is land ice that is not accounted for in sea level calcs.

The biggest threat to this planet is over population - no one dares mention doing anything about that.

Dear me, couldn't agree more! Fairly frightening, I try not to think with a Malthusian head on me! I get scared!



ETA: I feel guilty for hijacking this thread a bit! Sorry OP. With regards to the actual sign up thing, I think that if people want to feel like they are doing something and it isnt costing them money to do it then what harm can it do? I just don't think it will be enough and without everyone on board I'm not sure what an impact it can have. Thats not to say I don't agree with doing it if you want to.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Carbon Offsetting is a load of bullmanure - creative accounting for the soul and another moneymaking operation for big business. Liberal market economics are unlikely to solve the problem when the assumption that continual economic growth is always a good thing forms the central tenet of the system.

I am sure if I were to list everything that I try to do to lessen my environmental impact, it would meet with derision if it were to be scrutinised by someone whose belief system does not allow them to accept that anthropogenic climatic change is a possibility. Not being the Ruler of the World also hampers me somewhat in planning a global response. So I'm not going to lay out a manifesto.

Unfortunately, not having a spare planet 10 minutes round the corner makes taking a chances that it's all going to be OK (whether due to a God, scientists, the retail price mechanism, the Second Coming of the Conservatives, or sheer good luck) a kinda risky prospect.

Who knows, maybe the world will be hit by a lethal pandemic or two. Maybe some nutter will start off nuclear Armageddon. Perhaps we will get hit by an asteroid. Perhaps this could actually be the human extinction event. Eventually something else will evolve. I don't pretend to know for certain.

I don't step out in front of speeding cars in the road just because there's a chance they can stop in time and I might not get squished into the tarmac, I take a slightly longer route and use the crossing. I could still be squished, but I've done what I can to avoid making it more likely.

But there are always those people who are unable to comprehend that the car won't be able to brake in time, it will never happen to them and they are invincible. Some get away with it. Some don't.

Oh well.

mech_2

moonrakerz wrote: »

He warned that sea levels will rise and the Arctic will be ice free in 30 years. He seemed to be oblivious of the fact that huge amounts of ice thaw and re-freeze every year - without making the slightest difference to sea levels around the planet.
This is another doom scenario peddled by the Climate Change lobby. Get half a glass of coke fill it to the top with ice, come back when the ice has melted - has the level of the liquid risen ? No ! - simple physics.

A little too simple I'm afraid. A glass of coke is not the same shape as the world's oceans. That's the key. The surface area of the oceans is restricted and very much larger that its depth. If its volume gets bigger even by a tiny proportion the sea level goes up by what seems a lot to us tiny humans.

But the real issue isn't ice caps melting (except for the CO2 trapped in the ice that would escape). The sea levels would rise with global warming not due to ice melting but because the huge body of already liquid water would expand.

The biggest threat to this planet is over population - no one dares mention doing anything about that.

You could be the first to volunteer to lay down your life. I don't think compulsory euthanasia would go down too well though.

A_fiend_for_life

Signed up. Thanks. Not sure where I will make the cuts.

thescouselander

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But I'd rather take action and be proven wrong, than to do beggar all and find out later that something could have been done about it.

People can take action "just in case" but this will cost litterally billions of pounds. What if the theory of CO2 causing climate change is wrong? Thats billions of pounds wasted that could have been spent alleviating suffering from real problems that are happening right now - problems that we can definately do something about.

At the end of the day, climate change may be bad, but it might not be the most pressing problem we have. It may be more cost effective to focus out efforts on other problems.

mech_2

thescouselander wrote: »

People can take action "just in case" but this will cost litterally billions of pounds. What if the theory of CO2 causing climate change is wrong? Thats billions of pounds wasted that could have been spent alleviating suffering from real problems that are happening right now - problems that we can definately do something about.

At the end of the day, climate change may be bad, but it might not be the most pressing problem we have. It may be more cost effective to focus out efforts on other problems.

What would cost billions of pounds? Curbs on consumption and efficiency gains can only bring cost savings, surely? Where are the huge costs that keep being claimed?

moonrakerz

mech wrote: »

A little too simple I'm afraid. A glass of coke is not the same shape as the world's oceans. That's the key. The surface area of the oceans is restricted and very much larger that its depth. If its volume gets bigger even by a tiny proportion the sea level goes up by what seems a lot to us tiny humans.

No, just totally simple !

1. Ice floats on the water.
When the ice melts the additional water will make no difference.

2. When water freezes it expands, so if anything sea levels will fall when the ice melts and the ice is replaced by less bulky water.


Apart from which - just what is the NATURAL state of the earth ? The man-made climate change lobby are busy telling us it is as it is now, or 20 years ago, or whatever, to suit their argument. They certainly don't go back more than 100 years otherwise they start coming up against historical warmings and coolings - which just doesn't fit any of their theories - unless they fiddle the figures as they did with the famous "hockey stick curve" ! This curve only goes back 1000 years anyway - the last ice age finished 10,000 years ago and there were plenty more before that as well !
Perhaps the natural state is with no ice-caps, or perhaps with ice caps as far south as London. I don't know and THEY certainly don't either.
Why should I believe the IPCC members when they are basing all their gloom and doom forecasts on what has happened in the last few years ?

PS: Don't tell them - but it has started getting colder again. This is well documented.