Endowment timebars: Court breakthrough

Garry_Anderson

vinno65 wrote:

Further to my last post,

The mail on sunday have actually been in touch now with a view to doing a piece about time bars and the Limitation Act, the Observer journo has told me she is doing a follow up this week, apparently a lot of lawyers are now very excited about the implications of the case, and Which (I know they might have had a hand in inadverdently creating the time bar fiasco) are also now on board with a view to publishing details.
Who knows perhaps there's hope for anyone time barred pre june 2004 when the new rule came in, why this wasn't made retrospective is beyond me anyway. Hang on a minute pre june 2004 700,000 time barred. Lets say 150,000 of them have been mis-sold and are deserving of redress, at an average of £5000 that works out at £750,000,000 conspiracy theory anyone??

The 'wrong' is ongoing - therefore any limitations could not come into effect.

Any statute on limitations would start from when the 'wrong' has stopped - true or false?

e.g. The police can't say to shopkeeper (victim of protection racket), "Sorry sir - even though you are still paying, you signed the agreement with them ten years ago - so you cannot bring charges against them".

vinno65

Unfortunately Gary the law doesn't work that way. You've got to remeber who makes the laws in this country anyway!
Limitation comes into play from the moment is reasonable to assume you are aware you have been wronged. There are a few caveats in the act but basically thats what the law states.
Unfortunately you analagy about the shopkeeper won't apply here thats criminal law, I know what your saying about it being criminal to sell these products but you know and I know you'd have a job proving it in court.

regards Vinno

Garry_Anderson

vinno65 wrote:

Limitation comes into play from the moment is reasonable to assume you are aware you have been wronged. There are a few caveats in the act but basically thats what the law states.
Unfortunately you analagy about the shopkeeper won't apply here thats criminal law, I know what your saying about it being criminal to sell these products but you know and I know you'd have a job proving it in court.

I am certain that it is time elapsed since any fraudulent activity occurred Vinno

I also know that I could get the head of Serious Fraud Office to admit fraud in a court of law - the selling financial products that are unfit for purpose for mortgage repayment.

You have to remember - I have documentary evidence that it was top management 'mis-selling' endowments - despite the propaganda lies saying it was only rogue advisors working for them.

vinno65

Hi Gary,
yes in the case of deliberately concealed fraud then there is no time limit,
even the 15 year longstop does not apply. I think it is section 30 of the Limitations act that covers this. It also states incidentally that for the purposes of the act, a deliberate breach of duty that is unlikely to be discovered for some time is regarded as fraud. I tried to argue in court that in my case, although the firm had agreed that my personal circumstances at the time meant an endowment was unsuitable, they still pressed ahead with the sale. I argued that this was a deliberate breach of duty (that possibly would't be discovered for some time, an endowment typically lasting 25 years) but I don't think i did myself justice in court as the judge took the view that back then it wasn't negligent to recommend endowments to pay off a mortgage. I think she missed the point I was making that in my case whether or not and endowment was a sound recommendation or not it was unsuitable for me personally and the seller was aware of that having ascertained my personal details.

regards Vinno

vinno65

Looks like the story is gathering steam, there was a piece on the BBC's working lunch today, see it here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/4995148.stm

regards Vinno

Garry_Anderson

vinno65 wrote:

Hi Gary,
yes in the case of deliberately concealed fraud then there is no time limit,
even the 15 year longstop does not apply. I think it is section 30 of the Limitations act that covers this. It also states incidentally that for the purposes of the act, a deliberate breach of duty that is unlikely to be discovered for some time is regarded as fraud. I tried to argue in court that in my case, although the firm had agreed that my personal circumstances at the time meant an endowment was unsuitable, they still pressed ahead with the sale. I argued that this was a deliberate breach of duty (that possibly would't be discovered for some time, an endowment typically lasting 25 years) but I don't think i did myself justice in court as the judge took the view that back then it wasn't negligent to recommend endowments to pay off a mortgage. I think she missed the point I was making that in my case whether or not and endowment was a sound recommendation or not it was unsuitable for me personally and the seller was aware of that having ascertained my personal details.

Yes - I did know thanks Vinno - it is Section 32.

From my thread: Why time bar is bull

Relevant to this is the Limitation Act 1980 - Section 32 - Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake

(1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4A) below [relates to innocent third party], where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act,
either--
(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant;
or
(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant;
or
(c) the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/library/lccp151/cp151apa.pdf

Thread and post is at:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=168013#post168013

vinno65

Hi All,
here's the link to the Observer follow-up printed Sunday
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,,1779547,00.html
Also there was an article the week before that might be interesting to some
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,,1774199,00.html
regards Vinno

vinno65

The Mail on Sunday is now on the case,
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/endowments/article.html?in_article_id=409595&in_page_id=55,
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/endowments/article.html?in_article_id=409069&in_page_id=55,
regards Vinno