Lloyds TSB - Enforcement Notice

Ian1968

I was declared bankrupt 28th February 2008, and have now since been discharged.

In my petition I included my Lloyds TSB joint account I held with my wife, as well as my personal accountant. Since being declared bankrupt, Lloyds TSB were the only creditor to persist in sending me Statement of Charges being added to both accountants - nothing else.

Recently I contacted the Official Receiver and told them I was still getting these letters.

I understand that my wife would be still held liable for an amount on the joint account, of which we asked the bank for details of. Nothing was ever sent.

Today my wife has received an Enforcement Notice from the bank for £406.91 stating that she has broken the agreement by failing to pay the overdrawn amount. The letter also informs he that she must pay £ .00 by Friday 28th August plus interest which is occuring daily. Failing to do so, will result in the account being refered to their solicitors.

We have received no correspondence whatsoever requesting any amount back.

...and yes the amount they are telling us we must pay is £ .00.
They also state that the Unplanned Overdrawn Balance is £ .00. They actually state that the Cheque Account Balance is £406.91. No mention of minus!!!

I would grately appreciate any advice that anyone can give as this is now causing worry.

Regards

blind-as-a-bat_2

My only advice is that this is typical behaviour for Lloyds TSB, they ignore ALL written communication, and phoning them is almost always a waste of time.

Yes your OH became liable for the overdraft, but this is where, in my opinion they go wrong, she has not broken any terms in her own right, only you did that going BR, yet they WILL cancel any joint overdraft and WIL start piling on charges, BUT wont contact your OH to come to some agreement.

And that, if they do take legal action, if you get a decent magistrate, could put you in a very strong position, as they have acted unreasonably

However you don’t really want it to get that far, but do keep that paperwork showing a positive balance safely, it may be useful

Can you prove you sent correspondence asking for details?, i hope you sent it recorded.

And how much was the account overdrawn on the date of your BR?

Ian1968

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

Can you prove you sent correspondence asking for details?, i hope you sent it recorded.

And how much was the account overdrawn on the date of your BR?

Thank you for your reply...

I never did send it recorded! I realise now.... that I should've sent it recorded

The amount at the time was £341.98. I also wrote to them claiming back unfair charges before I went BR. The only letter I received from them about that was the one informing that all cases were on hold!!!

blind-as-a-bat_2

Ok, now that may have been true then, but as far as i know it is not now, but i am not up on the reclaim thing.

However, any reclaim will be joint, and half would go to the OR (i assume you already knew that), but even if they where on hold, that works both ways, so may explain why they waited so long.

How much is the claim worth for your OH's half?

If it covers the amount in question, you need to remind them the claim is ongoing, and threrfore the amount claimed is in dispute as it is not owed due to this fact

serenity34_2

It's worth bearing in mind that an 'enforcement notice' means nothing. It's an unsecured agreement therefore a 'non priority' debt for your wife. This means that she doesn't stand to lose essential goods / services if she can't pay. It will affect her credit reference file though.

You don't mention if this is the only debt left in your wife's name? If it is then the 'standard' advice is for her to work out

a) If she owes them any money ( you seem to think she does )
b) What she wants to do ie repay or not.

Your wife could start by sending a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 asking for a copy of the original credit agreement relating to the overdraft. She should send this recorded delivery and keep a copy ( there are sample letters on this site which can help but I'm new on here so not sure where! ). In theory, if the bank can't produce a true copy of the agreement ( it doesn't have to be a signed copy ) then the debt may be legally unenforceable ( depending on when the overdraft was taken out ). She should not be pursued for payment until the bank has complied. This can be a good tactic to buy some time even if you think there may be a debt there.

Your wife may decide that she simply wants to arrange to repay the money at an affordable rate. If it is the only debt her main option will be to deal with this herself ( as she wouldn't be eligible for things like a DMP / IVA etc ). She should work out ( after essential expenses and decent standard of living are taken into account ) what she could afford and offer this on a monthly basis ( in writing, enclosing a copy of an income and expenditure form ). She should ask for interest and charges to be frozen so the debt doesn't grow.

You may also want to seek advice from a free debt advice charity like National debtline freephone 0808 808 4000

Best of luck

blind-as-a-bat_2

serenity34 wrote: »

It's worth bearing in mind that an 'enforcement notice' means nothing. It's an unsecured agreement therefore a 'non priority' debt for your wife. This means that she doesn't stand to lose essential goods / services if she can't pay. It will affect her credit reference file though.

You don't mention if this is the only debt left in your wife's name? If it is then the 'standard' advice is for her to work out

a) If she owes them any money ( you seem to think she does )
b) What she wants to do ie repay or not.

Your wife could start by sending a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 asking for a copy of the original credit agreement relating to the overdraft. She should send this recorded delivery and keep a copy ( there are sample letters on this site which can help but I'm new on here so not sure where! ). In theory, if the bank can't produce a true copy of the agreement ( it doesn't have to be a signed copy ) then the debt may be legally unenforceable ( depending on when the overdraft was taken out ). She should not be pursued for payment until the bank has complied. This can be a good tactic to buy some time even if you think there may be a debt there.

Your wife may decide that she simply wants to arrange to repay the money at an affordable rate. If it is the only debt her main option will be to deal with this herself ( as she wouldn't be eligible for things like a DMP / IVA etc ). She should work out ( after essential expenses and decent standard of living are taken into account ) what she could afford and offer this on a monthly basis ( in writing, enclosing a copy of an income and expenditure form ). She should ask for interest and charges to be frozen so the debt doesn't grow.

You may also want to seek advice from a free debt advice charity like National debtline freephone 0808 808 4000

Best of luck

The CCA act, or to be more accurate a request for the agreemant, does not apply to overdrafts, while they are partialy covered in the act, the same protections/remedies are not afforded to them as with a loan or a credit card, a CCA request is a waste of time i am afraid, sorry, but persueing unlawfull charges may help, so an SAR may be in order, but i get the feeling the OP has already got the info they need

serenity34_2

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

The CCA act, or to be more accurate a request for the agreemant, does not apply to overdrafts, while they are partialy covered in the act, the same protections/remedies are not afforded to them as with a loan or a credit card, a CCA request is a waste of time i am afraid, sorry, but persueing unlawfull charges may help, so an SAR may be in order, but i get the feeling the OP has already got the info they need

Overdrafts are classed as 'running account credit' for the purposes of CCA, as described in s10 of the Act.

s78 actually covers the right to copy agreement / statement of account for running account agreements

blind-as-a-bat_2

serenity34 wrote: »

Overdrafts are classed as 'running account credit' for the purposes of CCA, as described in s10 of the Act.

s78 actually covers the right to copy agreement / statement of account for running account agreements

But the point your missing is you do not need to sign an agreemant for an overdraft, so the bank can produce any ol bit of paper they like, which they can, and do, with any CCA request, but should it reach court, they must produce the origanal signed document (according to CPR anyway, although it is frequently ignored) That does not apply with an overdraft, as there is no signed agreemant needed, so makes it pointless.

that is highly simplified, but is the gist of the reasoning

serenity34_2

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

But the point your missing is you do not need to sign an agreemant for an overdraft, so the bank can produce any ol bit of paper they like, which they can, and do, with any CCA request, but should it reach court, they must produce the origanal signed document (according to CPR anyway, although it is frequently ignored) That does not apply with an overdraft, as there is no signed agreemant needed, so makes it pointless.

that is highly simplified, but is the gist of the reasoning

But for other CCA regulated agreements ( e.g. loans, credit cards ) there is only a requirement for a 'true' copy of the executed agreement to be provided. This doesn't need to have a signature to comply with the requirements detailed in ss77-79. Apologies if I'm missing something. If it gets to the stage of defending a county court claim only agreements taken out prior to 6th April ( I think ) 2007 can be deemed 'irredeemably unenforceable' ie the court cannot make a judgement in the creditor's favour.

After this date the amendments to the 1974 Act came into force meaning that any agreements taken out after 6th April 2007 are enforceable with leave of the court ie there is not such thing as 'irredeemable unenforceability' ( although this isn't retrospective ).