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Mortgage Madness 2003
shakerbaby
Posts: 413 Forumite
Currently showing over on HPC.co.uk here http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=123120&st=0 is a program on mortgage fraud which originally aired in 2003. What are everyone's opinions on it?
Here is the program: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8482518243122067675&hl=en-GB
:eek:
Here is the program: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8482518243122067675&hl=en-GB
:eek:
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Comments
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Tumbleweed.............30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0
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shakerbaby wrote: »Currently showing over on HPC.co.uk......
:eek:
You lost me at that point.....;)
But in all seriousness, HPC-ers like to make wild claims about the scale of mortgage fraud.
Sure it happened, but it was always a small percentage of the total mortgage market.
Fraudsters tend not to pay their bills, especially years after the loan was taken out.;)
If there were genuinely the millions of cases that some like to think, then we would have millions of people in arrears and millions of reposessions.
We don't.
Total arrears are still, after the crash, recession and unemployment, only around 2.25% of mortgages. And repo's are only going to be 65K or so this year, maybe less.
Can't argue that it existed, but it obviously wasn't as endemic as you seem to think.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »If there were genuinely the millions of cases that some like to think, then we would have millions of people in arrears and millions of reposessions.
The fraud cases will relate directly to BTL empires that are now in financial difficulty and therefore coming to light.
For those poor individuals that were scammed price wise. They will have to live with their misfortune overpaying for their property. All they can do is continue paying their mortgage.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »The fraud cases will relate directly to BTL empires that are now in financial difficulty and therefore coming to light.
And if they are in financial difficulty, then they are included in the arrears statistics.
Yes, it happened. No, it wasn't nearly as widespread as many bears claim.For those poor individuals that were scammed price wise. They will have to live with their misfortune overpaying for their property. All they can do is continue paying their mortgage.
Hmmmm, maybe, but TBH I just don't see this as a big deal. If they bought a BTL, then they should have done so on the basis that rent, or rent plus a small contribution from themselves, will cover the mortgage for most of the time. (sure they'll have some voids, but you have to plan for that)
After 25 years (actually long before then as rents rise with inflation but mortgages are inflation proofed) they'll have an income from it, and some gain from capital appreciation to boot.
What you describe as "misfortune" and being "scammed", actually still translates into making quite a lot of money for most of them over the long term. Just perhaps not quite as much as they'd have made had they bought earlier or later. But thats how markets work..... Nothing rises in a straight line forever....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
The other point which is seldom discussed is the fact that many BTLers' deposits were raised by "mewing" from their own home.
They never take into account the increased payments they have to make to repay this.
All HPI cheerleaders are essentially debt junkies who think debt is wealth and equity is cash.
Take away HPI and they have nothing.
Which is why all these clowns who said they would buy more properties if prices fell are not doing so.
(ps this is not a reply to McTittish, just a general observation)"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you never know whether they are genuine or not" -
Albert Einstein0 -
OT- Hamish_Mctavish-how many buy to let properties do you own and when were they purchased? just curious, u dont have to answer.0
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The other point which is seldom discussed is the fact that many BTLers' deposits were raised by "mewing" from their own home.
They never take into account the increased payments they have to make to repay this.
All HPI cheerleaders are essentially debt junkies who think debt is wealth and equity is cash.
Take away HPI and they have nothing.
Which is why all these clowns who said they would buy more properties if prices fell are not doing so.
(ps this is not a reply to McTittish, just a general observation)
i know that you're always right Nearly but you're not on this occasion
the HPI cheerleader would be receiving rent on the other property which would cover that MEWed amount and probably a bit of their own mortgage... they'd be quids in...
it's only the financial crisis that has highlighted that this doesn't always work... they now struggle to rent their property and without that extra income have to pay their existing mortgage and the mewed amount...0 -
It was pretty clear to anyone with half a brain that by 2003 the housing market had reached bubble point. It was then that the real madness was unleashed. More and more " creative " lender, rather than the market become stable, gallons of petrol needed to be thrown on the fire to keep it burning fiercely for the neat 4 years.0
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i know that you're always right Nearly but you're not on this occasion
the HPI cheerleader would be receiving rent on the other property which would cover that MEWed amount and probably a bit of their own mortgage... they'd be quids in...
it's only the financial crisis that has highlighted that this doesn't always work... they now struggle to rent their property and without that extra income have to pay their existing mortgage and the mewed amount...
But many of them were susidising the rent out of their own pocket in the hope that HPI would come to their rescue."The problem with quotes on the internet is that you never know whether they are genuine or not" -
Albert Einstein0 -
Euphoria1z wrote: »OT- Hamish_Mctavish-how many buy to let properties do you own and when were they purchased? just curious, u dont have to answer.
None.
I have two properties, one which we live in and the other which we let an aging relative live in rent free after an unfortunate change in their circumstances.
We had planned to move anyway, but we just ended up keeping the first house instead of selling it when we bought the second. First house bought early 90's and mortgage free in 18 years, second in 2007 with a mortgage. Second house is down about 5% from 2007 if you believe the local market averages. First house is up about 400% from 1990.
I have no objection to BTL, but I think if you are going to do it, you need to invest more time and effort to make it work properly than I would care to at this point of my life.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
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