criminal record and working in a care home

dmg24

There are lots of ifs and buts on this thread.

OP, you need to contact the Care Quality Commission. They will investigate your concerns.

robpw2

is she still claiming benefits ?
from what you have said she has commited some serious cases of fraud and really not sure why anyone in a carehome environment would be giving her work

im all for second chances but these are vulnerable people who would be at risk if she slipped into her old ways

do the care home really know the full truth ?

caris

I really do not know if the care home is fully aware of the circumstances, she's very good at lying, and I very good a passing the blame on to others, she still gets very angry when you through her convictions at her saying that everyone is is to blame except her, my view is you dont get a criminal record for nothing especially on 5 counts. I would have thought though that her criminal record would have come back on the POVA and as for the CRB I dont know how long this takes to come back or what it would show.

As for her still signing on I dont know as she only started the job today.

Peoples comments that care homes are short staffed and will take anyone regardless I find very disturbing, who will face the concequences when things go wrong?

dmg24

caris wrote: »

Peoples comments that care homes are short staffed and will take anyone regardless I find very disturbing, who will face the concequences when things go wrong?

These 'consequences' will not happen if people report them.

Snuggles

caris wrote: »

I really do not know if the care home is fully aware of the circumstances, she's very good at lying, and I very good a passing the blame on to others, she still gets very angry when you through her convictions at her saying that everyone is is to blame except her, my view is you dont get a criminal record for nothing especially on 5 counts. I would have thought though that her criminal record would have come back on the POVA and as for the CRB I dont know how long this takes to come back or what it would show.

Caris, people are only referred for inclusion on the POVA list if they are convicted whilst working in relevant employement (ie care work). If this person was not employed in care work at the time of committing the offences, she would not have been placed on the POVA list, so there is no reason why "her criminal record would have come back on the POVA". The only thing which will reveal her criminal record is the CRB check.

Snuggles

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

However from next year, everyone working with children or vulnerable adults is going to have to be registered with the Independent Safeguarding Authority. And the ISA WILL decide whether you're a fit and proper person, or not. Employers will have no discretion, employees will have no right of appeal.

Sue that's not quite true - employers will still have discretion. A person might gain ISA registration even though they have a criminal record. It will still then be up to the employer whether they employ that person.

And there is a right of appeal!

Savvy_Sue

Snuggles wrote: »

Sue that's not quite true - employers will still have discretion. A person might gain ISA registration even though they have a criminal record. It will still then be up to the employer whether they employ that person.

I realise that a criminal record won't stop someone gaining ISA registration. But if their record DOES prevent them getting it, the employer has no discretion, they cannot employ them.

Snuggles wrote: »

And there is a right of appeal!

Who has this right, the employer or the employee / volunteer?

I know this may seem like an unusual question: many people will think that it should be black and white. However DH and I both work for charities who support vulnerable adults and help them make changes in their lives. At the moment, many of our staff and volunteers come from a similar background to our current clients. And many of them also have criminal records, sometimes for quite serious offences.

So a CRB may come back which would make your granny's hair curl, BUT we know the person, we know what the risks are in our work, and we know what safeguards we can put in place to minimise these.

Since we don't yet know exactly who's going to end up barred under the ISA scheme, we have some concerns ...

Snuggles

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I realise that a criminal record won't stop someone gaining ISA registration. But if their record DOES prevent them getting it, the employer has no discretion, they cannot employ them.

Yes, just as currently an employer cannot employ someone who in on the POVA/POCA list.

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Who has this right, the employer or the employee / volunteer?

It's the individual who can appeal.

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I know this may seem like an unusual question: many people will think that it should be black and white. However DH and I both work for charities who support vulnerable adults and help them make changes in their lives. At the moment, many of our staff and volunteers come from a similar background to our current clients. And many of them also have criminal records, sometimes for quite serious offences.

So a CRB may come back which would make your granny's hair curl, BUT we know the person, we know what the risks are in our work, and we know what safeguards we can put in place to minimise these.

Since we don't yet know exactly who's going to end up barred under the ISA scheme, we have some concerns ...

No, it doesn't seem an unusual question, I think many organisations have similar concerns at the moment. Firstly, the legislation gives specific definitions to who are considered "vulnerable adults", and you may find, depending on the nature of the work the charities do, that they will not fall under the remit of the scheme. The definition of a vulnerable adult is set out in paragraph 59 (page 42) of the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act which you can download here http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=321

Also, when the ISA is considering a person, they will be assessing the future risk of harm, not just looking at what someone has done in the past and saying that person must be unsuitable because 10 years ago they did x, y and z. Each case will be considered on it's merits - if someone has a criminal record, but has not offended for several years and there is evidence of rehabilitiation, this would be taken into account. There are some serious offences which will lead to a person automatically being placed on a barred list, but the individual will usually still have the right to make "representations" explaining why they shouldn't be barred, except for a few very serious offences.

Whilst no scheme is ever going to be perfect, the aim is not to punish people who have a criminal past, but to prevent people who pose a future risk from working with vulnerable adults/children. Easier said than done of course!

Savvy_Sue

(Not S_S but her DH...)

Snuggles wrote: »

Firstly, the legislation gives specific definitions to who are considered "vulnerable adults", and you may find, depending on the nature of the work the charities do, that they will not fall under the remit of the scheme. The definition of a vulnerable adult is set out in paragraph 59 (page 42) of the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act which you can download here http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=321

I was aware of the definition. The trouble is that we have an open door policy, and some of the people who come in will be defined as vulnerable adults. Therefore we work with vulnerable adults. How many of our people are vulnerable does not seem to be an issue.

Snuggles wrote: »

Also, when the ISA is considering a person, they will be assessing the future risk of harm, not just looking at what someone has done in the past and saying that person must be unsuitable because 10 years ago they did x, y and z. Each case will be considered on it's merits - if someone has a criminal record, but has not offended for several years and there is evidence of rehabilitiation, this would be taken into account. There are some serious offences which will lead to a person automatically being placed on a barred list, but the individual will usually still have the right to make "representations" explaining why they shouldn't be barred, except for a few very serious offences.

This makes no sense at all. You cannot assess the risk by looking at the individual. You can only assess it by looking at the individual in the context of the activities they undertake: what they do, in what circumstances, with what supervision, and with what safeguards in place. They cannot assess the risk of our work, when they know nothing about it.

We provide a wide range of services for a wide range of people. They all involve some form of contact with some vulnerable adults, but the potential risk from that contact varies from significant to almost zero, depending on the activity, the people and the context. Currently, I have numerous volunteers who I can use in one context or who can help in one way, but who would not be suitable to undertake other activities. Not only do they help others, but their rehabilitation is greatly helped by this activity. The new legislation will remove this opportunity - the only question is 'are they suitable?' and the only safe answer will have to be 'no'.

caris

thank you for all your coments, I was unaware of the changes due next year.

Seeing as she wasn't working in care at the time, then that maybe why her new employer gave her the job, we will have to see what happens when the CRB comes back