Chronically sick nation determined to learn nothing

Thrugelmir

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Actually, if our savings rate did go to 6%, it would guarantee this recession dragged on and on. Consumer spending is a vital part of the recovery.

Agree that recession would linger on in the short term. Though the change to a savings habit will be encouraged in the medium term.

lemonjelly

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There is the silent majority. Change can be subtle and progressive. Cutting back on expenditure doesn't neccessarily have to be drastic. The failure of the coffee chains is a good example of a change in spending patterns.

Agree completely.

I have to try to restrain myself from thinking that the people I see all day are a reflection of all society - they are not.

Noticeable for me is the gradual increasing number of empty shops. I'm starting to notice it is happening in more and more places I go to. Many of them being coffee shops, sandwich places and similar small business'.

Graham_Devon

Really2 wrote: »

Not true for personal debt.

http://www.creditaction.org.uk/

Personal debt July = £1459bn
Personal debt August = £1458bn

Not disagreeing with you here, as I know they are the figures.

However, I can't really believe that 1bn has been paid off in todays times.

What effect would bankruptcies have on this figure? More and more people are going bankrupt.

I'd guess, these bankruptcies are effeting the loan ammounts out there. If someone goes bankrupt and wipes off 30k, surely the amount out there that is currently borrowed goes down, as per your figure?

Sure, a lot are paying down debts at the moment, but a lot are also going bankrupt. Both of those would have a downward effect on the figures?

I'm just wondering what the figures would be sat at at the moment without the increase in bankrupcies and DRO's (which is quite a large increase).

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you here, as I know they are the figures.

However, I can't really believe that 1bn has been paid off in todays times.
.

That's up to you Graham, Your right your not disagreeing with me you are disagreeing with the facts.:rolleyes:

You don't know how they work the figures out so why bother to disprove them?
If they were still going up would they be right?:rolleyes:

£8bn per 1/4 is being overpaid on mortgages and lending is constricted but you still think personal debt will never decrease.

Graham_Devon

I'm not disproving or disagreeing with you or anything. I'm simply asking what happens when someone goes bankrupt. Does the figure reduce?

Don't know why you took offence to that but I apologise if there was something which got to you.

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Don't know why you took offence to that but I apologise if there was something which got to you.

I took offence to it as it as been bear food up until last month. I was prepared for it to be correct up until that point and still am now.
Likewise it would be nice to know that others who championed the site did the same.

Lots of people repay debt in a recession so it should not be fantasy that debt would start decreasing at some point.

Debt is not being dished out at the same rate it was 2 years ago so it stand to reason it will fall eventualy.

Sometimes you have to go with the facts and accept they are an indication of what is happening. Even if it does not fit in with your views. that goes for me and everybody.:)

Graham_Devon

LOL, I am accepting it. I just would like to know how the rising number of bankrupticies effect it.

I can't accept a billion was paid off in a month, as I beleive those figures are monthly.

I'm asking if bankruptices also count as "paid off". I'm inclined to think the bankruptices are paying off more of the unsecured debt than people actually paying back.

C'mon really, no real need for the argument is there mate? You keep saying we should talk facts, well we are right now. Part of talking about the facts includes talking about the facts which make up that fact.

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm simply asking what happens when someone goes bankrupt. Does the figure reduce?

As a quick work through the £8,000,000,000 in over payments per 1/4 divide that by 3 (to get per month). Then divide that by 10,000 (the average number doing bust or insolvent last month, rounded up)

that would allow for £266,666 per insolvancy.(I would say average is way below £100,00K for personal debt)

So the figures could well be correct even taking in to account write off's for bad debt.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

lemonjelly wrote: »

I agree. In fact, to an extent, rented sector are in a more difficult situation.

For a number of reasons, I'd argue that many renters (NB not all!) don't have the level of financial literacy the OO's have. They haven't had the level of involvement with financial products, don't necessarily have or access all the financial products OO's do, and possibly have a lesser level of financials skills/acumen compared to most OO's.

A lot of renters are perhaps one or two steps back from the financial services industry, and this slightly reduced acumen affects how they deal with providers of financial services, and also their own finances.

I have met many renters who's budgeting skills are second to none, they know where every last penny is (usually because they have to!) However, I frequently find, if they are a couple, it is only ever one of the couple who is like this. The other "hasn't a clue" & "leaves that to the wife/husband/partner".

However there are also many renters, who because of their lesser involvement with financial services through their lives who as they grow experience real difficulties in coping with their levels of personal debt.

Interesting observation. I'm not sure it's really true that the act of having a mortgage makes OOs superier in terms of financial savvy. Having a MEW cashpoint, and the option of taking out all those enticing loans advertised on daytime telly so you can go on a big holiday and have a shiny new kitchen doesn't seem to have instilled much debt intelligence in many home owners. And there are plenty of OO couples where one has no idea of the finances they're signed up to.

econo_2

Really2 wrote: »

That would mak the recession worse and the rest of the world would sell the £ as it would show we were clearly bonkers.

Because of low IR debt is being paid back of record rates. It may not be saving for you but it is for anyone with debt.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/apr/01/mortgage-lending-figures-mortgages

BOE Base is a reflection on inflation and the economy, not to punish/reward savers.

Really2 would you please enlighten as to the best way out of the recession?