450k for a three bed flat-madness ! Now these people face ruin.

Turnbull2000

Sapphire wrote: »

This is simply incorrect. At the height of the property boom, wherever one turned in the 'real' world young people were talking incessantly about buying property as an 'investment' – this extends to people in my publishing offices in their twenties. The majority of people I know who are in their 40s or more have lived in the same property for 20 years plus and were not sucked into gambling on property.

That's a mindset that the older generations ingrained in the young so they'd be more willing to pay over the odds. They've been practically brainwashed so those born before them can celebrate their unearned gains.

But anyway, I assumed your reference to "investment" was of the BTL kind. That's why I spoke of the over 40's.

dopester

Jonbvn wrote: »

Personally, I believe that NB property contracts are generally far too biased in favour of the developer. This is particularly true with completion times, which has some bearing on the case in question.

Maybe if you chose to seek and pay for advice from an independent solicitor they would warn you of those risks. Just as I sought advice from a commercial litigation solictor about a matter last week.

A contract is a contract. If you want to sing-and-dance with HPI, sign to buy at whatever asking price, using the off-plan developers' solicitor for conveyancing, and expect circumstance to never change such as being able to get any LTV mortgage at the rates you feel fair, then sign like these buyers did.

I could have bought in 2004.. but didn't. Idiots such as these were part of the problem buying at ever higher stupid prices back then and earlier still, and so they've personally harmed my own circumstances. Their buying at higher prices forced up prices of all similar property in the area.

No one forced them to buy. Now they have to lick it up. Also no one asked individuals to take other friends/family/TV to be the best advisers in to the magic of property-wealth.. Maybe it is time for them to do some reading and learn about the world, instead of gawping at things like the best and biggest LCD TV they next want or drooling over contestants on X-factor or dreaming of the profits like in Kirstie's HPI TV riches. Stupidity and gambling can be rewarded in a rising market. Now it is time for the real education Labour always promised them.

And at the end of the day human beings are like animals - we follow the herd. If we think everyone is buying property, then we want to buy it too - you think you are missing something, like the boat, if you don't.

That makes you an idiot then doesn't it. Not you personally, but just sheepingly accepting property is a one-way bet upwards, or any other investment. Now it is time for intelligence to have some rewards for once.

Graham_Devon

Sapphire wrote: »

This is such an uninformed point of view. Blame everyone but yourself for letting yourself be duped into collaborating with the culture of greed and 'me first'. Complete idiocy for people in their twenties to get themselves into so much debt. Are they completely thick? What sort of an education did they have? Why are they so hung up about buying a property? Why don't they rent? If they really wanted to buy a first home, why didn't they choose somewhere further out?

Who have I blamed? I also didnt get duped, I just said I can see how easy it is too.

It may be complete idiocy people getting into that much debt, but the point of what I was saying is, often it was the only way of securing a home, renting does not suit everyone, and we have just lived through a debt fueled boom, where being in debt was completely normal, if not encouraged.

It's easy to look at someones situation and say "why didnt they do that, I would have". I do it all the time. But I have been in that situation, and can tell you, it's not an uninformed point of view, it's one I have been in, and one where you cannot get a normal home, but can get this home. If we all had choice it would be great, but thats not always the case....and someone if suddenly giving you the opportunity you have been begging for. And BTW, I'm the last person to blame for everything. My post history shows this.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing when prices are falling.

baileysbattlebus

dopester wrote: »

Maybe if you chose to seek and pay for advice from an independent solicitor they would warn you of those risks. Just as I sought advice from a commercial litigation solictor about a matter last week.

A contract is a contract. If you want to sing-and-dance with HPI, sign to buy at whatever asking price, using the off-plan developers' solicitor for conveyancing, and expect circumstance to never change such as being able to get any LTV mortgage at the rates you feel fair, then sign like these buyers did.

I could have bought in 2004.. but didn't. Idiots such as these were part of the problem buying at ever higher stupid prices back then and earlier still, and so they've personally harmed my own circumstances. Their buying at higher prices forced up prices of all similar property in the area.

No one forced them to buy. Now they have to lick it up. Also no one asked individuals to take other friends/family/TV to be the best advisers in to the magic of property-wealth.. Maybe it is time for them to do some reading and learn about the world, instead of gawping at things like the best and biggest LCD TV they next want or drooling over contestants on X-factor or dreaming of the profits like in Kirstie's HPI TV riches. Stupidity and gambling can be rewarded in a rising market. Now it is time for the real education Labour always promised them.

That makes you an idiot then doesn't it. Not you personally, but just sheepingly accepting property is a one-way bet upwards, or any other investment. Now it is time for intelligence to have some rewards for once.

I'm glad you qualified your last statement!!

I agree entirely with what you say regarding independet advice - and if I ever felt the urge to buy off plan it would only ever be with a good solicitor. It always surprises, no amazes me that people can enter into one of the biggest financial commitments they are going to make in their lives and not seek decent independent professional advice.

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Who have I blamed? I also didnt get duped, I just said I can see how easy it is too.

It may be complete idiocy people getting into that much debt, but the point of what I was saying is, often it was the only way of securing a home, renting does not suit everyone, and we have just lived through a debt fueled boom, where being in debt was completely normal, if not encouraged.

It's easy to look at someones situation and say "why didnt they do that, I would have". I do it all the time. But I have been in that situation, and can tell you, it's not an uninformed point of view, it's one I have been in, and one where you cannot get a normal home, but can get this home. If we all had choice it would be great, but thats not always the case....and someone if suddenly giving you the opportunity you have been begging for. And BTW, I'm the last person to blame for everything. My post history shows this.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing when prices are falling.

But Graham, the article (as someone else has pointed out) did not portray people with no other option. It showed people buying luxury flats that were priced higher than local, more traditional housing stock, with purchase prices of between a third and half a million pounds. They all had far higher than average deposits of £30k, £40k, £50k+. These people all had the option of buying cheaper, more secure, traditional homes that other people had been buying and selling and living in for decades. They wanted the new build, they made the choice.

You're quite right, it's always very easy to get suckered in by hyperbole, sales people and enthusiastic rubbish from companies. But so what? That's not new and will be apparant in every culture the world over.

beccad

(I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been discussed.)

I don't have much sympathy for people who bought a 'lifestyle' flat 2 years before it was due to be completed (seems madness to me!) but I also can't see what Berkley Homes is hoping to get from these people by taking them to court? They seem hell-bent on getting their money whatever the cost, but all I can't see that they're going to come out with anything? Maybe a protracted waiting period whilst these people secure other finance or save the money up?

As far as the buyers are concerned, if they could afford these flats in the first place, perhaps they should get saving before the court-case, and hope that the judge is lenient in giving them time to pay. I would hope that would be the only outcome of the case. It would be an utter farce otherwise...

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

But Graham, the article (as someone else has pointed out) did not portray people with no other option. It showed people buying luxury flats that were priced higher than local, more traditional housing stock, with purchase prices of between a third and half a million pounds. They all had far higher than average deposits of £30k, £40k, £50k+. These people all had the option of buying cheaper, more secure, traditional homes that other people had been buying and selling and living in for decades. They wanted the new build, they made the choice.

You're quite right, it's always very easy to get suckered in by hyperbole, sales people and enthusiastic rubbish from companies. But so what? That's not new and will be apparant in every culture the world over.

I think I got carried away with my personal experience so dragged it off course a bit. Just when chucky said "their own fault" it got me started. Certainly on second viewing am starting to realise these were just after the "shiny new things" as so many were over the past decade and are now paying the high price for their own greed.

chewmylegoff

i expect many of them thought they'd just flip their off plan flats and make a mint without ever having any intention to actually live in them. loads of people were doing it during the boom and bragging about how clever they were - i used to sit next to one of them at work.

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think I got carried away with my personal experience so dragged it off course a bit. Just when chucky said "their own fault" it got me started. Certainly on second viewing am starting to realise these were just after the "shiny new things" as so many were over the past decade and are now paying the high price for their own greed.

Now you're going the other way.

These people aren't rapists, murderes or criminals. And most of them probably won't be greedy, in the sense of how we're all thinking. As you've rightly pointed out, they've maybe just listened too much to media and popular opinion, wanted a nice house, thought that it couldn't really go wrong and bought one.

Assuming that they are all greedy, shallow and vacuous would be really unfair (although I'm sure there are a few amongst them), they are probably just people who wanted a place to live and didn't do the research or enough thinking about 'what ifs?'. Shame really, but there we go. I bet they all have nice bathrooms and kitchens, so they'll just have to enjoy them for a few years longer.

bristol_pilot

I just hope they're not bailed out using public funds. Nothing surprises me anymore in Labour's Britain.