This one is a corker and defo different to others.

TellTheTruth_2

Bit of a long post but, I think you should love this one.

Long story short......... when I was getting divorced (the first one) the Judge was kind enough to transfer all the money owed (we had joint accounts) to my name. This was irrespective of the fact that before I had caught on she had gone and overdrew in the current account, brought the credit cards to their limits etc etc. Anyway I got lumbered with it

So as at a time I was on a very low wage I got my solicitor to sort out a deal with the bank which he did. Pay £12 a month and no interest until the money is paid off. Not a bad deal I guess. (I do not have any more debt except for a £245 a month mortgage. Credit card is only used in emergencies and then I start saving like made to pay it off when the bill comes). Why worry about something when it is at 0% interest.

Got a letter from the bank. This is how it goes removing the "sensitive" information:

Account number: xxxxx
Period covered by the statement: XXXX (never had a statement from them for the last 15 years. This was the first one)

Loan Provided: Unavailable
This is the date of the first movement on your account.

Loan Amount: Unavailable

Interest Rate: 0%
This rate has applied throught the period of the statement to the whole outstanding balance and will apply for the remaining term

Term of Agreement: Unavailable
This is the duration if the agreement as provided in the agreement and does not take into account anything that could vary the term, for example if you take a payment holiday or make an over payment

Creditor: XXXXXXXX

Opening balance: XXXX (which I disagree with)

Transaction Details:

Bla bla bla. (It just lists £12 monthly over a period of a year)

Closing balance (which I do not agree with).

More information

This statement does not contain all the information which you are entitled to receive from us about your agreement. If you would like to receive this extra information please get in touch with us to obtain it. We are required to provide you with this information at no additional cost within fifteen working days of receiving your request for it.

*********************************
My Notes: Writing Loan Amount: Unavailable!!!!!!! What da bleeky dableeky do!!! Also, Loan Provided: Unavailable. And we have Loan amount: Unavailable Term agreement: Unavailable

Anybody ever got a letter from a bank with that kind of information????? Main reason for the dispute was that I believe I do not really owe them that much and should be highly lower amount left to pay.

Anyway.......... wrote back to them (to the same address as shown on the letter I got and making sure I refer to the proper reference they give) and sent them this........

The Loan Company
Company House, <fake bank address just for here
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:- Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412 <fake number

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.
I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.
If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.
Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).
I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.
If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully
Mr A N Other

******************************

Got a reply. (You aint gonna believe this one).

Same letterhead from same bank. Different department.

Dear Mr xxxx

Thank you for your recept payment.

Unfortunately we are unable to accept this payment as you have asked for information on an account we do not manage, please find your postal order enclosed.

If you have any queries about this, or any other matter, please do get in touch with us.

Yours sincerely

***************************

So being the nice person I am, I wrote to that person asking to tell me which department I need to write to. Got no reply.

I then sent another letter to the department that had sent me the original letter. I also sent the £1 postal order and a copy of my original letter and a copy of the letter received stating that they did not know anything about that account.

Right........ what happens??? I get a letter from the credit card department telling me that the account number is not a recognised account and sending me my £1 postal order back.

So I write again to the department that sent me the original letter telling them that this is the last time I will write, I sent them the £1 postal order and copies of all the letters I have received and a copy of my original letter.

Well.......... yep they did it again. I got the postal order back and a letter telling me that that account does not exist and giving me a full list of all the accounts (whether current, credit card or savings) I have had with them.

Unbelieveable isn't it!!!!!!!!!!

So stop the payments. About a month later I get a letter telling me I am late in paying and telling me that action will be taken.

So I replied telling them that I do not believe I owe them such monies and if they want to argue the matter to take it to Court.

Oops! I get a letter from a DCA!!!!!! So I wrote to them telling them that I do not recognise them whatsoever and I do not give them authority to enter in the dispute between myself and said bank. Then I gave them a bit of "mouth" (cos I was disgusted with what they had sent) and I cut them down to size a bit.

Now received a letter from the bank telling me that they are sad I did not come to arrangement with the DCA and that if I do not pay in full within 10 days (Yeah! As if!!!!) they will refer the matter to Court.

Latest is I have written to them. I sent them a copy of my last letter to them telling them that I dispute the amount and if they want to solve the matter to take it to Court. Then, and this is the corker........... I told them that instead of taking the proper action (which was to take the matter to Court) they tried to intimidate me by using a DCA firm and hence, they have commited an offence.

NOW, we come to my questions:

I have no problem going to Court. I have the original letter (the one that says that even the Loan amount is not known). I also have copies of my letters, copies of their letters and also all mail was sent recorded so I have proof of delivery. Nobody can say they are owed money and then 3 times when queried they reply that that account does not exist!!!!!! Then again, if the matter was to go against me (got to look at both sides of the coin) I will just ask for the £12 a month to be reinstated as I acted according to the information they had sent me.

Question 1: When you send a s.77/s.78 letter and the bank does not send any information what really happens?

Question 2: In the Consumer credit act it says that the bank has committed an offence. What EXACTLY is this offence and how is it punishable?

Thanks in advance for info.

Nick Smith

DVardysShadow

TellTheTruth wrote: »

<long tale snipped>

In summary:

• You came to an agreement with the bank to pay off some money
• The bank sent you a 'statement' which is so woefully short of detail that you don't recognise the details
• You stopped paying under the agreement you had
• You sent £1 to the bank for your data, which they returned without data
• The bank set a DCA on you
• You are miffed

Is this a fair summary?

TellTheTruth_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

In summary:

• You came to an agreement with the bank to pay off some money
• The bank sent you a 'statement' which is so woefully short of detail that you don't recognise the details
• You stopped paying under the agreement you had
• You sent £1 to the bank for your data, which they returned without data
• The bank set a DCA on you
• You are miffed

Is this a fair summary?

Not really. They also denied 3 times that the account actually exists. And I am not "miffed". Do not see why I should be annoyed when a bank says to somebody that the account does not exist.

Nick Smith
p.s. Now how about the answer to my questions?

bigegg7583

q.1 If they do not send the information required, you stop paying them.

Send them a letter saying "NO CCA - NO PAYMENTS".

Consumer Credit Act says "whilst the breach continues, no enforcement action is permitted" -
so they can do NOTHING. If they attempt to, report them to Trading Standards, and the OFT.
Also put in a formal complaint against the bank - when they give a "final response", take it to the Financial Ombudsman - that'll cost them £400.

Non-compliance with a CCA request is a FULL defence if it ever gets to court.

q.2 It's no longer an offence - that part was removed in the 2006 amendments.
The offence would have been "non-compliance with a request made under sections 77-79 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974"

It MAY still be an offence under the "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practices Regulations" however.

DVardysShadow

TellTheTruth wrote: »

p.s. Now how about the answer to my questions?

Well, I thought it could do with a summary and be sure I have understood. But as you are pressing for a response ...

Your ex pulled a nasty trick on you, but it looks like the bank were reasonably kind.

Now the bank have got themselves in a muddle about the deal, it looks to me like you are using their muddle as a prompt to wriggle out of the debt, otherwise you would not be going down the road of a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

You seem to be quite aware of how much is owed, in which case why not just carry on paying, until you have paid off the debt or they start returning payments against the loan and raise a dispute with them about how much is actually outstanding? If you went with my suggestion and they put the DCA on you, I would say you were in the right. But doing as you are doing, I am not surprised that it is going to the DCA.

Where do you place yourself on a scale of can't pay to won't pay?

tyllwyd

I'm a bit confused about what kind of a debt it was originally - was it a loan, or an overdraft on a current account, or a credit card? Or were there several different debts which got combined together in some way?

TellTheTruth_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Well, I thought it could do with a summary and be sure I have understood. But as you are pressing for a response ...

Your ex pulled a nasty trick on you, but it looks like the bank were reasonably kind.

Now the bank have got themselves in a muddle about the deal, it looks to me like you are using their muddle as a prompt to wriggle out of the debt, otherwise you would not be going down the road of a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

You seem to be quite aware of how much is owed, in which case why not just carry on paying, until you have paid off the debt or they start returning payments against the loan and raise a dispute with them about how much is actually outstanding? If you went with my suggestion and they put the DCA on you, I would say you were in the right. But doing as you are doing, I am not surprised that it is going to the DCA.

Where do you place yourself on a scale of can't pay to won't pay?

In a way I agree with you but you do not know the full story. Which if I had entered into would have been a 10 page post.

YES there was that debt. Then another one was that my parents (well my dad is dead now) at the time (they live abroad) wanted some things brought over. My mother said she made a bank transfer. I asked the bank how long it will take. 4 days. So I start to buy things using my cheque book (well it takes 4 days to clear). Then no money received. My mother swears money sent. She sends me copies of the info from bank abroad. Bank over here says nothing received. Do you know how much money (forget that today you can make a claim but 10 years ago you could not) they charge at £25 a letter snowballing?????? Do you know what they put me through? Getting overdrawn letters every day at £25 a shot? And why? Cos in the end they said they had got the money but could not trace who the money was for. They had the right bank, the right account number and the right name. Apparently they did not have the right sort code. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!! At the time there were 6 people with my surname living in England, Scotland, Wales, Channel Islands and the Commonwealth as well!!!!!!!! And they could not trace who the money was for?????? (No my surname aint Smith although my name is Nick). At the time 6 people with same surname living in England. All same family. At the time 4 of them underage. That leaves 2. Myself and my ex. Why did they not contact the sending bank and ask for the sort code to be verified?

Damned right I will take them for a lesson. They charged me thousands. I remember I had to finish selling my car just so I could live. And talk about living on the poverty breadline. Well they put me there although today I am glad to say I have managed to more then sort every thing out and in fact save every week.

Nick Smith

TellTheTruth_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

raise a dispute with them about how much is actually outstanding?

That in the first instance is my full argument.

Nick Smith

TellTheTruth_2

tyllwyd wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about what kind of a debt it was originally - was it a loan, or an overdraft on a current account, or a credit card? Or were there several different debts which got combined together in some way?

Originally it was the matrimonial debt. Then they made a mess of a money transfer. My solicitor sorted it out into one sum. Got a bit of a refund for all their mistakes but not all the charges charged for being overdrawn and defo not all I lost.

Nick Smith

tyllwyd

It makes me wonder if you ever would have signed a CCA for this money? It sounds as if it wasn't a loan as such. Haven't you got the documents from when it was originally agreed?

I wonder if that is also some of the reason behind why you are having trouble getting information from the bank - maybe the reference number isn't an account number as such, so that's confusing the staff when they try to access your records. And if the debt has been sold on to a DCA and the file closed at the bank, that might make it worse.

I think you need to dig out all your paperwork for this, and make sure you can show why you owe them less than they say. Why are you disputing it now? Are you unhappy with the original total, or do you think they haven't credited the £12 payments properly?