Charging Order? The myth

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boomans12

Overreaching occurs in this situation as two or more owners sell their property to a third party for a "valuable consideration" (which is normally for money but could also be for a debt owed.) As transferring property ownership doesn't include this factor, overreaching doesn't occur so the Restriction remains in place.

However......... given what you've stated, you should be able to go back to Court to get the Restriction removed IF you can prove in Court that your ex partner, legally, had his beneficial interest in the property removed prior to the date the Charging Order was granted.  So, I'd check that out first.

boomans12

Ok thank you, I wish I had done the transfer form in the first place 😢

boomans12

The courts won’t talk to me and I’ve just tried to talk to a solicitor who said they need his consent , he won’t consent because he doesn’t care! No one seems to be able to help me because the debt is in his name. 

neilo43

Hi all,

I have read lots of this thread but still a little confused re the wording on the restriction on my deeds, can someone help please?

I was in an IVA (joint with partner) 12 years ago, paid 4 years and then lost my job so they failed the IVA. Never heard from any of the creditors since and have a clear credit file.
I now want to sell my property which I own with my partner but there is a restriction on it, this reads:

(26.07.2012) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by Mark Allen of Grant Thornton UK LLP, Waters Edge, Clarendon Dock, Belfast, BT1 3BH.

Is this something I can get solved seen as the IVA was classed as failed? Grant Thornton were the original IVA provider.

My solicitors have written to Grant Thornton and aren't getting any replies!

Thanks in advance for some advice.

Land_Registry

neilo43 said:

Hi all,

I have read lots of this thread but still a little confused re the wording on the restriction on my deeds, can someone help please?

I was in an IVA (joint with partner) 12 years ago, paid 4 years and then lost my job so they failed the IVA. Never heard from any of the creditors since and have a clear credit file.
I now want to sell my property which I own with my partner but there is a restriction on it, this reads:

(26.07.2012) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by Mark Allen of Grant Thornton UK LLP, Waters Edge, Clarendon Dock, Belfast, BT1 3BH.

Is this something I can get solved seen as the IVA was classed as failed? Grant Thornton were the original IVA provider.

My solicitors have written to Grant Thornton and aren't getting any replies!

Thanks in advance for some advice.

This scenario/restriction don't fall into the charging order context of this thread. You would either need the restrictioner to withdraw their restriction (form RX4) or you can apply to cancel is (form RX3)
Form RX3 would have to be submitted along with suitable evidence that the interest protected by the restriction is no longer valid. Your solicitor should be aware of this and our PG 19 section 3.7.3 explains how to apply 

Land_Registry

boomans12 said:

The courts won’t talk to me and I’ve just tried to talk to a solicitor who said they need his consent , he won’t consent because he doesn’t care! No one seems to be able to help me because the debt is in his name. 

You are in a very difficult position and do need to rely on your legal advice here. A court is likely to only 'listen' if a formal application is made to for example dismiss the previous order. However it reads as if the debt still exists so they are unlikely to do that directly but your solicitor is the one to advise.
Action may be necessary against your ex-partner as if he's still a joint owner you are not going to be able to remortgage without his involvement anyway and if the debt remains it just makes it harder. 

Noble101

Hi I am dealing with my late fathers estate. I put his house up for sale my mother pre deceased him. There is a caution on the house and when our conveyancer applied to remove it, my mothers former employer has claimed they want payment for an outstanding amount. This related to when she was found guilty of theft and false accounting. This was 30 years ago so they want the amount plus 30 years interest. They have no coroborating paperwork from the court case which has now all been destroyed. My conveyancing solicitor has been unhelpful on this point though to be fair not their area of experise. My question is can they claim an amount without producing the original court order or any correspondence at all for that matter relating to this caution? 

Being completely unaware of this prior to putting the house on the market the house is sold, this is the only unresolved issue holding it up. Can anyone advise?

Noble101

Noble101 said:

Hi I am dealing with my late fathers estate. I put his house up for sale my mother pre deceased him. There is a caution on the house and when our conveyancer applied to remove it, my mothers former employer has claimed they want payment for an outstanding amount. This related to when she was found guilty of theft and false accounting. This was 30 years ago so they want the amount plus 30 years interest. They have no coroborating paperwork from the court case which has now all been destroyed. My conveyancing solicitor has been unhelpful on this point though to be fair not their area of experise. My question is can they claim an amount without producing the original court order or any correspondence at all for that matter relating to this caution? 

Being completely unaware of this prior to putting the house on the market the house is sold, this is the only unresolved issue holding it up. Can anyone advise?

@Land_Registry can you please advise whether you would normally uphold an objection from someone who put a caution on the house (not a charge) 30 years ago when they do not have any other supporting paperwork? They do have an affidavit related to the case but the amounts are disputed in other papers that I have managed to obtain. Factually the person objecting can not produce any paperwork to support their rejection of removing the caution. There was a high court hearing but they can not produce a statement or any agreement reached about how it would be paid. There is even the possibility that it was paid and yet there are no records anyone can produce. The amount they are requesting from the estate of my late father is in excess of £50k. Any advice gratefully received. Thanks

Land_Registry

Noble101 said:

Noble101 said:

Hi I am dealing with my late fathers estate. I put his house up for sale my mother pre deceased him. There is a caution on the house and when our conveyancer applied to remove it, my mothers former employer has claimed they want payment for an outstanding amount. This related to when she was found guilty of theft and false accounting. This was 30 years ago so they want the amount plus 30 years interest. They have no coroborating paperwork from the court case which has now all been destroyed. My conveyancing solicitor has been unhelpful on this point though to be fair not their area of experise. My question is can they claim an amount without producing the original court order or any correspondence at all for that matter relating to this caution? 

Being completely unaware of this prior to putting the house on the market the house is sold, this is the only unresolved issue holding it up. Can anyone advise?

@Land_Registry can you please advise whether you would normally uphold an objection from someone who put a caution on the house (not a charge) 30 years ago when they do not have any other supporting paperwork? They do have an affidavit related to the case but the amounts are disputed in other papers that I have managed to obtain. Factually the person objecting can not produce any paperwork to support their rejection of removing the caution. There was a high court hearing but they can not produce a statement or any agreement reached about how it would be paid. There is even the possibility that it was paid and yet there are no records anyone can produce. The amount they are requesting from the estate of my late father is in excess of £50k. Any advice gratefully received. Thanks

The only advice I can offer is that you can make an application to cancel a caution at any time 
Once processed and providing the application is sufficient we will usually notify the cautioner and give them a chance to consent/object
If they object then their objection would be treated on merit in the same way your own application will have been up to that same point.
There is no 'normal' other than the process we follow. Every single property, caution and more is unique and can only be properly assessed based on application made and information received as part of that process

eggbox

Land Registry Rep

Regarding the above, what would be the LR view if the creditor failed to respond to your letters?