Charging Order? The myth

eggbox

Despair_2

You've thrown a lot of info into your post and its a little confusing. So if you could specify exactly what charges or restrictions are actually showing on your mortgage deeds and who they are in favour of we can start to work out which way is best to get them removed? 

Despair_2

Dear Egg Box, sorry if I have not made it clear. This is so frustrating for me.
Below is what is on the Land Registry 
(04.09.1989) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 30 August 1989 to secure the moneys including the further advances therein mentioned. 3. (09.09.2015) Proprietor: # xxxxxxx(Co. Regn. No. xxxx) of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The part in 2015 is the transfer of the charge to another bank on TR4, who also do not own the debt and 4 years after the owner of the debt declared it unenforceable.
(04.09.1989) RESTRICTION: Except under an order of the registrar no disposition by the proprietor(s) of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor(s) of the Charge dated 30 August 1989 in favour of xxxxxxx referred to in the Charges Register
Below is the letter from the owners of the debt in 2011. they have not contacted me at all since 2011.

Letter dated 13 June 2011 from xxxxxx to yourself states: “Whilst we may not be able to enforce the agreement, the monies remain outstanding. The agreement or any monies paid has not been made illegal of void because of our current failure to supply a copy of the original agreement. We are prevented from taking steps to enforce the credit agreement but the underlying obligation to repay, remains in tact. The ruling in the case of McGuffick V RBS clarified the numerous interpretations of what is considered “enforcement”. Should you want to view the Judgment in its entirety, it is easily accessible via the Internet. The demanding of payment is not considered enforcement and purely a step taken prior to the commencement of proceedings, therefore your account will remain with our collections department for collection activity to continue.


Does this help? thank you in advance

eggbox

Despair_2

Given the information you have provided, and the information placed on your deeds; the only remedy I can suggest is for you to  put the matter back before a Judge. Its going to be complicated if you received a CCJ for a debt that the creditor has then stated is unenforceable, but not not impossible. Can I ask why solicitors you have approached have refused to get involved?

Despair_2

Dear eggbox
Thank you for getting back to me. That is the thing no CCJ, they did it as a mortgage application.  I am sure there are others out there in the same boat but don't realise it. 
It never went to court. 
When the debt was sold to a debt buyer the debt buyer  tried to take me to court to get a charge for the same debt. That was thrown out before it reached the courts as you can't have 2 charges for the same debt. 
The original bank sold the debt unsecured after doing a charge off which closed the account, kept the charge, then when they  were taken over, the charge was transferred to the bank that took them over. 
Neither bank has any link to the debt buyer who they sold the debt unsecured to. It is the debt buyer that declared the debt unenforceable. 
Yes it is complicated, solicitors I have spoken to say it is not their area of expertise. So wondering if there are speacilists solicitors
Or no one has heard of it before? 
The original bank has had loads of things  picked up on by the FCA in  the past ,  having a charge on a house with no debt owed to them can't be legal can it? Thank you in advance

Despair_2

Morning, so,  I have tried getting the bank to remove the charge and they refused, I sent them copies of the original banks database that shows the charge off and that the debt was sold.
Also a copy of the court summons from the debt buyer as well as the letter stating that the debt was unsecured and unenforceable. 
The bank states they will not remove it until the debt is paid. They don't own the debt, the debt is unenforceable. So they are trying to enforce an unsecured unenforceable debt by holding a charge on my property for a debt they don't own. How can that be legal? Thank you in advance

eggbox

Despair_2

What you have to grasp here is that the Law is a tool that has to be used to determine what is and isn't legal. Think of it like a screwdriver that is used to put an Ikea wardrobe together. The wardrobe doesn't get built until you pick the screwdriver and put it to work. So, given a "computer says no" employee at the bank has refused your, very reasonable request, it's time to put the tools at your disposal to work.

In the first instance, write to the bank and ask them to explain why they are unwilling to remove the charge given they no longer own the debt behind the charge (providing the evidence they don't with your letter.) Explain that, given the evidence you have provided, if they don't see fit to remove the charge, you will be left with no option to make a complaint to the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority.) 

This should focus the bank into looking at your complaint seriously, as they will have to account to the FCA if they don't do that. Unfortunately, the second thing you have to grasp is that the bank won't, necesserily, be sympathetic to your letter. There are a variery of reasons for this, but they mostly all boil down to their employees being straighjacketed by absurd company policies, that prevent employees dealing with the issue in hand, logically. So, whilst its hoped the bank see sense, given the evidence, be prepared for them to repeat that they won't remove it.

If they continue that stance, you then make a complaint to the FCA and ask them to investigate how a bank, that has sold their debt on to a third party, can still retain a charge over your property for a debt they no longer own? It's free to do and it costs the bank around £500.00 for the FCA to deal with the complaint. Its that last but that should concentrate the bank into investigating the matter properly, just don't rely on it.

If you do have to contact the FCA, it can be done online and, as is always advised; just stick to the facts and keep the issue as simple as possible for the FCA to understand. Unfortunately, the bank does have 8 weeks to reply, so get the letter off asap!  

Despair_2

Dear Eggbox
Thank you for your advice. I will send this off over the weekend. I really appreciate it

totally_bewildered

Hi
I am remortgaging my house and taking my husband (separated ) off the deeds of the house,he is signing it over with no monetary value as he is in prison for 8 years.I have found out that there is a restriction in his name on the land registry from Sept 2009 for a company called Capquest.I have contacted their representative company and they have said that the debt was sold to their client from Barclays Bank in October 2008 and as it was their client (Capquest) who issued legal action the debt must be repaid to them to take the restriction off the house.\the chargong order was made final on 7th Sept 2009.
I have no idea what this is for as we have never had any dealings with Barclays Bank and Capquest wont produce any proof that it was even our debt or what it was for.
Do I have to pay this as my solicitors seem to think that i do ,Its for £1900 and I will have to take out a loan to pay it otherwise I may lose the house as I need the new mortgage rate to afford payments.
Any advice would be very much appreciated

Enterprise_1701C

There is what I believe to be a restriction, though someone long ago told us it was a charging order, on our property.  It is purely in my husband's name.  Would like to be directed to a template for the correct SAR to be sent please.

Background - charge/restriction only showed up when we tried to remortgage, we had no knowledge of it beforehand.  We have tried to get an amount owed out of Barclays but have been told varying amounts, we are sure we paid this off but cannot find proof.  Last time my husband spoke to them they denied any knowledge of it!  They are unhelpful to say the least.

Yes, I did post before.  Yes it should have been dealt with, but my husband does not believe in doing things quickly lol.  Things have changed since I previously posted and this is the most dependable forum I know of on which to ask questions like this.

Thank you for any help you can give.

Enterprise_1701C

Any hints please folks?  I really do not know which form of SAR to send, I do not know what information we should request.