Charging Order? The myth

eggbox

For CL Finance try the below number for Hoist Finance as they have apparently taken over the company? 

Call 0800 121 6902

Call between 8am - 8:30pm Monday to Friday,

Robs123

Hi,
I just wondered if anyone has a conveyancer to recommend?  I've contacted at least 15 different companies now, I have found only one who seems happy to deal with the restriction as per my request but I'm still not 100% confident - before I actually instruct, I just wondered if there's anyone else I could have a chat with?

Many thanks

eggbox

Rob123
Go with the one you've found as they're rarer than rocking horse s*** even to accept they know about this subject!

eggbox

dan224
Howard Cohen appear to be the in house solicitor for Hoist so you may kill two birds with one stone?
But if not try 0330 6780 240

Robs123

Ha ha!  Ok, I will do. I'll also report back along my journey, I really appreciate this thread so I hope to contribute a successful story at some point soon!

dan224

eggbox said:

dan224
Howard Cohen appear to be the in house solicitor for Hoist so you may kill two birds with one stone?
But if not try 0330 6780 240

Awesome, brilliant sleuth work there @eggbox. Thank you! 

Stesar

Hi. 

I've been following this page for a number of years and wanted to give you some detail re my recent experiences and also ask for some advice please.

I had a charging order in my name on a jointly owned property in September 2014, with the standard restriction being registered at the LR. I subsequently sold the house in September last year having found a solicitor who understood the process and was happy to proceed on the basis that the debt didn't need paying from the sale proceeds. The house sale went through and the balance of funds were transferred to us without paying the debt as promised.

The conveyancer acting on behalf of the purchaser, who clearly didn't understand the process, despite being instructed what to do by solicitor, didn't inform the CO holder until a month after completion. This is clearly in breach of the restriction. Having spoken to my solicitor, their opinion is that the buyers conveyancers has acted negligently and as such may be liable for the debt or may settle it rather than risk being removed from the approved list of conveyancers. 

Despite buying a new build house, in December, our address is still not registered with many databases. However, I have now been served with a "statutory demand for liquidated sum payable immediately following a judgement order of court" by hand. They have also handed my wife a letter (this is not her debt) containing all of my related correspondence stating that she has acted dishonestly "blow the standards expected of decent people". So separately, I believe I may have grounds for a GDPR beach. 

Whilst I have set aside some money for the debt, it isn't the full amount since there was nowhere near enough equity and there were more pressing debts to clear. I was hoping for a long delay whilst they tracked me down, in order to build a sensible settlement amount but this clearly won't be the case now. However, I would like to understand what my negotiation strategy is. 

So, my queries are
Is my understanding that there is no obligation to pay from the proceeds correct?
On the basis that the notice of sale was given well after completion, does this mean that the purchaser doesn't own the land title? 
Where do I stand given that notice wasn't given pre-sale? The restriction is clear in terms of "certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer"
Is the CO now null and void now that the house is sold?
Is the interest accrued over the course of the 6 years or so from the original CO still outstanding or is that invalid of the CO is gone?

I could ignore the statutory demand but that doesn't seem like a wise thing to do.

Incidentally, my conveyancer has been great during this process (happy to pass on details privately). I will take formal advice but wanted to give my experience and also gather some opinion in the meantime.

Hopefully, this will help people in terms of the selling of the house being straightforward with the right conveyancer, but maybe the aftermath being not to straightforward.

Any advice would be gratefully received please.

Thanks

eggbox

Stesar
Before you do anything else you need to deal with statutory demand as if the creditor is serious he does have grounds to proceed with applying to make you bankrupt as you do owe the debt. Many SD's are only used as a threat to put fear into a debtor to get repayment started, however,  you can't take that chance so please seek advice on that ASAP! (Statutory demands also have to be deliver by hand due to the seriousness of whats at stake.)

Unfortunately,  this has come about as you have committed the Cardinal sin of putting your name onto another asset after successfully extracting all the proceeds from your sale. Its folly in this day and age of, seemingly, unlimited surveillance and social media to think that you won't be tracked down the moment you attach you name to a new asset? So anyone reading this in the same position, please understand you have to keep under the creditor radar if you sell up successfully.

I also don't think the buyers conveyancer has acted negligently. This is because there is no time frame set on a Form K restriction so it can be complied with at anytime? If we accept that what you say has happened, however, then it would be for the Land Registry to request the compliance before proceeding any further. It will also be up to the Land Registry to explain to the creditor why they have registered a new owner in the absence of the restriction being complied with? (Land Registry Rep may have a view on that?)

In answer to your other queries,
Is my understanding that there is no obligation to pay from the proceeds correct? No. There is no obligation to settle the debt at the time of sale. There has, however, been a legal obligation made to pay the debt from the proceeds through the CO
On the basis that the notice of sale was given well after completion, does this mean that the purchaser doesn't own the land title? No. The only dispute that could arise is whether the restriction should have been removed from the deeds.
Where do I stand given that notice wasn't given pre-sale? The restriction is clear in terms of "certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer" As advised above, there is nothing in the restrictions terms to say it has to be complied with pre-sale. It does state, however, that a new owner can't be registered without compliance. That new owners have been registered is a matter for the Land Registry to explain and not yourself as you've done nothing wrong.
Is the CO now null and void now that the house is sold? No. It remains attached to the proceeds from the sale of the house ( which is why you've dropped a clanger using the proceeds to purchase another asset you've put your name to, unfortunately.)
Is the interest accrued over the course of the 6 years or so from the original CO still outstanding or is that invalid of the CO is gone? The simple answer is yes, however, interest isn't allowed to be attached if the debt was a CCA regulated loan (like a bank loan or credit card?)  So if it was CCA regulated  this could be a reason to "set aside" the statutory demand?

eggbox

For any new readers viewing the above post  I do need to clarify that this thread is not advocating avoidance of all CO debts.  It is only those CO debts that were originally "unsecured" and  attracted very high amounts of interest as they were "unsecured" (like bank loans and credit cards) when the Law subsequently allows creditors to turn there "unsecured" loans (if the debtor defaults)  into a "secured" loan. This is by way of attaching the debt to one of the  debtors assets (usually there home.)

 In any language this is grossly unfair as most loans explain that the interest rate is high as no security is required.This is obviously a blatant lie if the creditor is able to, subsequently, secure the debt on an asset (usually property.) This is, especially, so when the large amounts of interest already paid are also not taken into account to reduce the debt owed?

Marblesue

I've followed this thread for some time now and looking to sell at some point with a restriction am totally confused. This is very worrying and and for an old credit card debt over 5k it's not the plain sailing once you have successfully sold i was previously was picking up from this thread.