Tragic event with friend's dog

olias

We have a well used public footpath nearby that dog walkers use. It has a river on one side so dogs are always running loose, to allow them to have a swim etc. On the other side of the path is a walled field with a gate. The first time I went up there, my dog (lab) was off the lead, and the gate into the field was open - he went in and found....chickens! - Well to cut a long story short, this resulted in dead chicken in dogs mouth.

I did not know who owned the chickens (there is a small row of terraced gouses nearby), but as luck (or unluck!) would have it, the owner had heard the squarking (sp?) and came out. I apologised profusely and offered to pay for chicken and said that someone had left the gate open. She then went on to say that her kids must have left the gate open as they walk accross field to go to school. She then went on to say that she had had 8 chickens killed by dogs in the last year! !!!!!!?

The point of this post is that owners of livestock themselves need to take some responsibility! Would you keep chickens loose in a field next to a well used public footpath frequented by dog walkers without building some sort of run to protect them? Would you allow them to roam on said path? Would you leave your gate open or leave your fence with gaps in it and expect everything to be alright and your chickens safe? I know I wouldn't.

A member of the public using a fenced off public footpath, and quite legally allowing their dog to run off the leash, cannot reasonably expect to come accross livestock on the path. What are you expected to do as a dog walker? Keep your dog permanantly on the lead just in case you ever come accross livestock loose?

The farmer should not be allowing his chickens to roam over the fence and onto a public footpath frequented by dog walkers if he had any sense or cares about them. He should also make sure his fences are secure (it is actually an offence - no pun intended - to fail to make sure your fencing is secure and livestock do not roam - although this mainly relates to livestock getting on public highways, so not strictly speaking relevant to this case)

The OP, as soon as she saw the chickens, tried to call the dog back, making every effort to get it under control. As far as I can see, the only criticism that can be directed at the Op, is possibly they should have had the forsight to realise that there is likely to be livestock around a farmhouse and yard, and put the dog on the lead in anticipation

Sorry for the long post, but it's pi55ed me off reading all the criticism directed at the OP

Olias

lostinrates

olias wrote: »

responsibility! Would you keep chickens loose in a field next to a well used public footpath frequented by dog walkers without building some sort of run to protect them? Would you allow them to roam on said path? Would you leave your gate open or leave your fence with gaps in it and expect everything to be alright and your chickens safe? I know I wouldn't.

In some caes this is simply not practical, cost effective or easily maintainable. Lots of footpaths run right though fields for grazing, more an issue with sheep than chickens though. Many foot paths run right through farm yards where its quitereasonable to expect some livestock too.

Open gate etc are a problem, I agree, and walking the route you know with a dog of the lead is unfortunate happening. FWIW, the number of times I've caught walkers hopping over the gate/fence into field with stock in it is depressing.

Dave101t

if the dog doesnt follow its commands, then id back any farmer 100%
if a dog in not on a lead and runs up to me in an aggressive way, im going to put it down myself. and we have dogs in the family so im not just being mean.

mrcol1000

olias wrote: »

We have a well used public footpath nearby that dog walkers use. It has a river on one side so dogs are always running loose, to allow them to have a swim etc. On the other side of the path is a walled field with a gate. The first time I went up there, my dog (lab) was off the lead, and the gate into the field was open - he went in and found....chickens! - Well to cut a long story short, this resulted in dead chicken in dogs mouth.

I did not know who owned the chickens (there is a small row of terraced gouses nearby), but as luck (or unluck!) would have it, the owner had heard the squarking (sp?) and came out. I apologised profusely and offered to pay for chicken and said that someone had left the gate open. She then went on to say that her kids must have left the gate open as they walk accross field to go to school. She then went on to say that she had had 8 chickens killed by dogs in the last year! !!!!!!?

The point of this post is that owners of livestock themselves need to take some responsibility! Would you keep chickens loose in a field next to a well used public footpath frequented by dog walkers without building some sort of run to protect them? Would you allow them to roam on said path? Would you leave your gate open or leave your fence with gaps in it and expect everything to be alright and your chickens safe? I know I wouldn't.

A member of the public using a fenced off public footpath, and quite legally allowing their dog to run off the leash, cannot reasonably expect to come accross livestock on the path. What are you expected to do as a dog walker? Keep your dog permanantly on the lead just in case you ever come accross livestock loose?

The farmer should not be allowing his chickens to roam over the fence and onto a public footpath frequented by dog walkers if he had any sense or cares about them. He should also make sure his fences are secure (it is actually an offence - no pun intended - to fail to make sure your fencing is secure and livestock do not roam - although this mainly relates to livestock getting on public highways, so not strictly speaking relevant to this case)

The OP, as soon as she saw the chickens, tried to call the dog back, making every effort to get it under control. As far as I can see, the only criticism that can be directed at the Op, is possibly they should have had the forsight to realise that there is likely to be livestock around a farmhouse and yard, and put the dog on the lead in anticipation

Sorry for the long post, but it's pi55ed me off reading all the criticism directed at the OP

Olias

The above is rubbish. The poster said they regularly walk along this path so they knew the chickens were out. If your out in the countryside and your not 100% sure your dog would not attack any livestock then you shouldn't let it off the lead if there are livestock around.
The farmer was quite within his rights to shoot the dog dead for scaring his chickens and as a dog owner I would support this. The problem is that some dog owners seem to think its their right to let their dog off the lead whenever and wherever they want. My dog loves being off the lead but due to her dislike of any other dog its very rare she can be let off the lead. Yet my dog has been attacked several times by a dog off the lead whose owner can't control it yet the owner seems to think she is not doing anything wrong.
Last night a guy had a go at me for walking my dog on a lead near his house because his garden isn't secure and he has a huge dog (I don't know the breed but it looked like a small pony) which he was forced to put on a lead in his garden when we got near as otherwise "the dog would rip yours apart".
It is like a lot of things in life selfesh people who don't take responsiblity for their actions looking for blame in other people than themselves. Its these people who cause problems for innocent people in their impact on their lives and giving other people bad names. The farmer probably is now spending a fortune on more security for his animals and views dog owners walking their dogs on the path with contempt.

Idiophreak

foxybabe wrote: »

This is a very unfortunate incident from which I am sure valuable lessons will be learned.

Unfortunate really isn't the word..

Or is every drink driver that crashes their car unfortunate?
How about every smoker that dies of lung cancer?

If you do something to substantially increase the odds of something bad happening, it's odd to describe it as "unfortunate" when it actually does.

Far too many dog owners fail to properly control their animals - and these are the kind of things that happen as a result...

olias

Re the above replies, the Op has made no mention that there were chickens there previously and may have been unaware, although I have said that they should have anicipated the possibility when approaching a farm dwelling and put the dog on the lead. Also the footpath in question was not going through a field, but was a track (presumably for farm vehicles) seperated from livestock fields by an (inadequate) fence.

I have not said the farmer is in the wrong, merely pointed out that they must take some responsibility for the care of their stock and fencing. A lot of farmers feel that they are in the right about everything - however, how many times have you come across livestock (sheep and chickens especially) that have got through fencing and onto public roads. I live in the countryside and this is a regular problem and is an offence by the farmer

Olias

zzzLazyDaisy

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! The OP made a mistake and is gutted about what happened. Has no-one here ever made a mistake?

SugarSpun

I would never let a dog that wasn't mine off the leash in a public place anyway - I'd assume that even if the dog was well trained and responsive to commands, that he might not respond specifically to me in an emergency situation because I don't have the benefit of being a superior pack member to him, IYSWIM. Just because a dog behaves well for its owner - and there seems to be a history of mischief with this dog in any case - is no guarantee that he'll behave well for me.

I'd have been terrified that the dog would run away or fall into a river or get hit by a car or a tractor or attacked by a bigger dog if it wasn't my dog. I'd feel similar if it was mine, of course, but I'd be more vigilant with a friend's pet because I'm less familiar with him.

peachyprice

Lesson learned:
NEVER let someone elses dog off the lead.

olias

To add to the debate!

I have spoken with an RSPCA inspector who has stated that even though the OP could be guilty of an offence under The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953, The farmer could also be guilty of a prima facia offence of animal cruelty in that he beat the dog with a stick causing it injury and unneccassary suffering. He only has the right to shoot (instant death, no suffering) if there is no owner present and no reasonable chance of bringing the dog under control.

As I have previously stated, legislation shows that there is fault on both parts in this sad incident

Olias