Brother in Law and his Endownment !

fruitpie

Hi all,

My Brother in Law has gotten himself in a right pickle with his Endownment policy. I have been on at him for ages to do something about it, maybe edinvestor or another could offer any advise.

He took his endownment out in June 1991 for 15,750.00 pounds paying 21.75 per month.

He had a letter advising that there maybe a shortfall of 7380.00 in Aug 2000. He had another letter in June 2003 saying that maybe there would be a shortfall, this time of 8240.00. Then again in 2005 got another letter advising of a shortfall of 8300.00

He wrote to his policy provider, although they were not the original company from when he first took the policy out, about miselling and the fact that the shortfall is half the amount of the orginal sum.

The letter he received back from them was curt and basically told him, Tuff Luck Mate ! out of date and you should have wrote sooner.

Any advise on the figures above and if you think he should pursue the shortfall further.. or even cash the damn policy in... seems to me as though he is paying in for nothing and each year the "shortfall" gets larger ???

Cheers guys ..

EdInvestor

Post some more details about it.

Company it's with ( original and current)
Guaranteed sum assured
Declared bonuses
Surrender value ( ring up and ask)
Monthly premium
Maturity date

vinno65

Hi fruitpie,
let me guess is the firm Friends Provident?. Even if it isn't
write back to them and tell them that they have to investigate your case as you intend taking them to court. To do this you need to prove that you were miss-sold AND that you have suffered a loss as a result. You will only know this if the firm does a full investigation.
The letters the firm sent your brother-in-law only time bar his right to take his complaint to the FOS they do not necessarily apply to taking the firm to court. I took my firm to court and they tried to have the case thrown out because they sent me a letter in Aug 2000 however the judge saw differently and said that this letter did not in fact start the clock ticking and upheld my complaint.
Hope this info is of help to you and don't let them fob you off
regards Vinno

EdInvestor

AFAIK the time bar is supposed to start ticking when you receive a "red" alert letter, which contains the wording "high risk of shortfall". IIRC there was an FSA ruling to this effect.

Background info on timebar rules

So it sounds as though the timebar would have kicked in with the 2005 letter, not the earlier ones.

He needs to do the following:

1) Confirm with the provider that they are responsible for selling him the policy

2) Make a formal misselling complaint.

Use this website for help in putting the letter together:

https://www.endowmentaction.co.uk

If the complaint is subsequently rejected, whether they claim it is time-barred or for some other reason, then take the complaint to the Ombudsman.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

Do not be put off by insurance companies telling porkies, this happens all the time

vinno65

If the firm in question is FP then they will attempt to time bar him on the basis of the High risk letters they sent out in 2000. These letters were not red did not mention time limits for complaint and offered advice such as increasing your premiums or even to "wait and see". If you remember the prevailing mood at the time ,most financial experts were still saying that endowments would still achieve targets and that these letters were just meddling by the FSA. Firms had to send them out. These letters however have been used by firms to time bar complaints from the FOS. And to the utter discredit of the FOS they have accepted this. An "amber letter" tells you exactly the same thing but show a potential shortfall at the higher investment rate return. An amber letter however does not start the 3 year clock ticking. Even a child could see the absurdity of this situation. It is compounded by the fact that people with endowments with the pooerest performing funds who are thus in most need of redress, find themselves time barred because they got red letters while joe bloggs with a better performing fund got an amber!.
I have tested this red letter in court against the Limitations Act 1980 which is pretty much what the FSA based their time bar rules on and the letter failed.By trying to keep complaints out of the courts the FSA has fed right into the hands of the firms where hundreds of thousands have been told they are time barred and have given up the fight unaware that they could very well make successful claims in court
regards Vinno

leona71

Hi
I have an endowment policy with a shortfall with FP and i wrote several letters disputing the timebarr and also wrote to the FOS. Received a letter last week saying they've released the time barr and they are now looking into my complaint. So i've jumped over one hurdle at least. Just waiting for the outcome.

Keep trying and this time barr re FP is a joke!!

Leona

fruitpie

EdInvestor wrote:

Post some more details about it.

Company it's with ( original and current)
Guaranteed sum assured
Declared bonuses
Surrender value ( ring up and ask)
Monthly premium
Maturity date

Hi edinvestor, thanks for the reply.

1.Original company was Royal Sun Alliance, now Phoenix.
2.Dont know, but will ask him this weekend.
3.As above.
4. He will ring on Tuesday, without fail !
5. 21.75
6. 2016

Cheers

fruitpie

leona71 wrote:

Hi
I have an endowment policy with a shortfall with FP and i wrote several letters disputing the timebarr and also wrote to the FOS. Received a letter last week saying they've released the time barr and they are now looking into my complaint. So i've jumped over one hurdle at least. Just waiting for the outcome.

Keep trying and this time barr re FP is a joke!!

Leona

Hi Leona

I wish you good luck with yours, and keep us all posted.

I hope that my Brother in law gets some good luck too - he needs it ! Cheers - fruitpie

EdInvestor

leona71 wrote:

Hi
I have an endowment policy with a shortfall with FP and i wrote several letters disputing the timebarr and also wrote to the FOS. Received a letter last week saying they've released the time barr and they are now looking into my complaint. So i've jumped over one hurdle at least. Just waiting for the outcome.

Keep trying and this time barr re FP is a joke!!

Leona

Well done Leona, thanks for reporting that.:T Others please note: don't take No for an answer from FP, stick with it - and see the rules above, the time bar kicks in three years from the time you receive the red "high risk of shortfall" letter. Not before.

vinno65

Hi Edinvestor
I recieved a "high risk of a shortfall"letter in AUG 2000 FP triedto have my complaint thrown out in court. The letter however failed the scrutiny of a judge so I won my court case. Just goes to show what a fiasco the FOS are presiding over.
regards Vinno

leona71

Yep i will keep you all posted with the outcome, i've been 'at it' for a few months now sending letters back and forth. My so called time barr letter had the phase 'wait and see' so that's exactly what we did. Explained this to them and they've released the barr. Honestly it's truely worth while fighting for as no-one likes to be ripped off and that's exactly what i was when they sold me the policy.

So i suppose my next letter will be the outcome, whether i get compensation for the large shortfall or not. Fingers crossed.

Good luck

Leona