Log Book Loans have taken our van, but we've never heard of them!

mabski

you should have demanded the police be present before handing over the vehicle just to double check how lawfull it was, if it was perfectly legal they would have had no objections to the police being present
theres no way i would have let them take it just because they said they had the right to do so

saver6

They said they were going to take it with or without permission, they had clamped it as well. When you're woken at 7.30 in the morning with them waving paperwork in your face and saying they were going to take your van with or without your posessions in it (which included most of my husband's tools in it that he needs for work), it's harder to make rational decisions. We did say we would call the police but the bailiffs said that the police would only come out if either side got threatening, which is perfectly true when you think about it, and neither side was threatening. We were upset, sure, but not threatening.

ALIBOBSY

The trouble is the police don't understand civil law any better than the rest of us and tend to go down the line of "its a civil matter we can't be involved" and will just stand back watching for possible breaches of the peace/threats.

Perhaps you could contact the baliffs to find out what auction the van will be in and go and bid for it? May cost less in the long run than paying out for another van privately and you may eventually get your original dosh back.

ali x

ILW

I would not consult your own solicitor at thsi stage as the seller probably has no money, so even if sucessful you may be on a hiding to nothing.
It would be worth a visit to CAB though as it is free and there may be some issues as to how the vehicle was taken from you. Going to the home to front the seller probably depends on how big your husband is.

saver6

Hubby and friends are VERY big
But of course we wouldn't do anything like that, we're law abiding citizens. But the first step before small claims is writing a nice letter to seller, so there are certain ways and means of getting our point across first.

Updated to say I just called LBL. Actually they were quite understanding on the phone surprisingly, but no, there's STILL nothing that can be done. In fact, the HPI thing is redundant anyway because he checked for me and they had declared the HPI interest only the day before we bought it, and we had been in talks to get it before that point. Definetly a scam. They obviously bought the van, took a loan out to get quick cash, then sold it for the cash they could get from us as well before the HPI could register, then do the frank, knowing that the buyer (us) would be liable.

I think I'll call the auction house to find out when it's going in. I know where, I just don't know when.

mrcow

saver6 wrote: »

They said they were going to take it with or without permission, they had clamped it as well. When you're woken at 7.30 in the morning with them waving paperwork in your face and saying they were going to take your van with or without your posessions in it (which included most of my husband's tools in it that he needs for work), it's harder to make rational decisions. We did say we would call the police but the bailiffs said that the police would only come out if either side got threatening, which is perfectly true when you think about it, and neither side was threatening. We were upset, sure, but not threatening.

I know this is no good to you now - but I'm pretty sure that they are not allowed to tow or hoist a car onto a truck if someone is inside it (I don't think they'd be insured for it)?

Personally I would have locked myself in the car and called the police.

I'm sure someone could clarify on this?

RobertoMoir

mrcow wrote: »

I know this is no good to you now - but I'm pretty sure that they are not allowed to tow or hoist a car onto a truck if someone is inside it (I don't think they'd be insured for it)?

Personally I would have locked myself in the car and called the police.

I'm sure someone could clarify on this?

If they did have the correct paperwork to seize the vehicle then the police would simply attend and remove you if you were doing that.

cyril82

Log book loans are scum, fact. According to reports i have read The oft are currently seriously considering revoking their consumer credit license as it's blatantly obvious they are running a loan sharking operation.

However, that said they are not totally to blame here, the seller certainly knew what was happening when he sold it to you so your right to be going after him, even if he has no money i would invest in securing a judgement against him and the second he defaults on any payment the court orders he make to you apply for a warrant and send bailiffs to seize whatever measly goods he has, he deserves it!

Hopefully though if he was running the van prior to you purchasing it he does work and therefore has some money or assets you can recover.

Something has to be done about log book loans though, they do this to innocent people all the time and it is not the buyers fault, log book loans rarely register an interest in the vehicle so any hpi check will come back clear, how is the buyer supposed to know that the seller owes money secured on the vehicle?

What’s more, the method log book loans use to secure the loan against and subsequently seize the vehicle is apparently over 100 years old and not used by anyone much other than log book loans companies.

It's a bill of sale agreement, which means the money is loaned in return for the agreed sale of the vehicle, however the sale never takes place unless the loan is defaulted on, so lbl didn't officially own the car when you bought it, they just had a signed bill of sale which they registered with the high court, so when the guy sold it to you, basically lbl went to the court and said "look, here is an agreement that shows he had already sold it to us" and that means they own it.

Because lbl were, on a technicality, sold the vehicle first the high court will grant them rightful ownership, as owners they can instruct any old lump they like to go and steal the vehicle back, they don't need your permission they can break into it because they own it.

BUT I BELIEVE that if the vehicle is on your property they still need a court order to repossess it without your authority as they can not enter your property against your will, i know lbl and their bailiffs have publicly disputed this but with an hp agreement where the hp company does legally have the right to repossess the vehicle until one third is paid and are legal owners of the vehicle they still need a court order to repossess even if one third has not been paid if the vehicle is on your property.

Furthermore if anyone turns up to repossess a vehicle without a court order and the vehicle is on your property, without a court a order to enter your property the police should make them leave as they do not have authority to be there and can not enter your property without either your say so or a court order.

i know most of that is too late for you now but just keep pursuing the seller, he owes you money and committed fraud. The copper who dismissed this as a civil matter is wrong, he did not own the vehicle yet he sold it to you, that is fraud, if i bought a car today, they sold it to mr x who paid me and agreed to collect the vehicle in 24 hours, then i sold it to mr y who turned up shortly after with cash and wanted to drive away, have i committed no crime if I keep both payments?

sorry that went on a bit, hopefully some of it useful but here is the top and bottom of it as i see it, yes you have been screwed, you are right to be pursuing the seller, consider though filing a complaint with the oft about the whole incident and the fact that log book loans are blatantly running a loan sharking business which is affecting innocent consumers who have never entered into any agreement with them, the only way to stop this happening again and again to to get rid of lbl and companies like them the sooner the OFT stop licensing these loan sharks the better.

Good luck and i hope you recover at least something from the maggot who sold you the van.

saver6

UPDATE: Not much but just thought I'd update to say that Trading Standards have finally called me back, and I'm not the first... The lovely lady I spoke to has had another similar complaint this week and is now going to do some digging into the legality of LBL seizing our van. Apparently in cases where finance is outstanding on a car, the first "innocent purchaser", ie, us, as we didn't know about it and couldn't have known about it, is always the rightful owner no matter what anyone says, but whether this applies to LBL as well she is looking into for us. She also told me that I need to contact LBL to demand to see the court order, which I am trying to do at the moment with no answer. Cross fingers for us!

mr_ch1ps

This could of been avoided if you would of spent £24.99 on a Hpi check, that would of told you about lbl having legal title ship, and of course the loan agreement is subject to bill of sale, not a lot an "innocent purchaser" can do there im afraid!!