More average salary stats to argue over.....

lostinrates

MrDT wrote: »

35k as a hairdresser though, wow... how much does she charge? That's a minimum wage job round here, school leaver does an apprenticeship type thing and just keeps doing it for years. If simply going SE meant double the wage for the same work there'd only be self-employed hairdressers out there surely? I might have to retrain and become a self-employed minted barber, thanks for the tip.

I think lots more hairdressers are SE than apparant from the road side: I seem to recall lots of lower priced salons comprise hairdressers each taking a place in a shope working for themselves. I think ther is a name for this but can't remeber what it is. T the passerby/client looks like ''a shop/salon'' not a collective of individuals.

Also worth saying ther are hairdressers and hairdressers. Some must just scrape by, some earn very well. The range you might pay, for example, for highlights near me varies from £50 to over £250.

wolvoman

wolfman wrote: »

Ok, firstly you're comparing median salary, and average house prices. Which is wrong for a start.

Maybe not £75k, but in the region of £85-100k would be about right.

I'm not talking about average house prices, rather the median house price. Something a majority worker can afford, and on a single salary should they decide to have a family with the wife temporarily out of work. A figure not skewed by the £2mil+ houses kicking around parts of the country.

I agree it's difficult to hold prices down. But if we don't then this country becomes an expensive place to live, and we're more exposed to property crashes like we've just seen.

One way to restrict it is to not allow banks to ease their lending criteria. And to stop mortgage fraud, whereby people lie on their applications. Make sure people aren't borrowing stupid amounts of money, and actually save before they buy so that they have some equity to start off with. Maybe make it so that 20% is the minimum first payment required on a house. I'm not saying jump to these rules right away, otherwise things wouldn't get moving for a while, but it's something they need to start applying.

It also means instead of paying £100k for your first house, then upgrading to a £175k house, then a 250k house, you're paying £150k for your first house and £300k for your second and 450k for your third. It's just more money being borrowed, yet we're not earning much more now (compared to house prices) as a relative comparison to 1999.

We're becoming a nation of debt, and expensive living. Other economies will just pass us by. I for one, have considered in the back of my mind, living elsewhere as I'd have a better quality of living.

I agree with much of that.

Except your definition of average (median) house. I think you'll find the median house is really only a cheap 2 bed place and not some family size 3/4 bed semi.

Amazing how many people on this board seem to think it is though.

MrDT

lostinrates wrote: »

The range you might pay, for example, for highlights near me varies from £50 to over £250.

_pale_

If we ever move anywhere near your area the li'l lady can damn well get used to using the hair colour bottles they sell in boots!:D

edit: interesting point on the 'shared premises' thing, self-employed hairdressers are no longer limited to being a 'mobile' cut your hair in your own home type or a business owner with premises of their own

the_ash_and_the_oak

wolvoman wrote: »

I agree with much of that.

Except your definition of average (median) house. I think you'll find the median house is really only a cheap 2 bed place and not some family size 3/4 bed semi.

Amazing how many people on this board seem to think it is though.

Agree with this - pretty sure that traditionally, FTB properties were smallish terraced houses at 3.5 x salary.

Not sure this is really so applicable today, think FTB property more likely to be a one bed apartment. Think it was always something of a struggle to get on that first rung in the past, and is just the same today (tho admittedly for a flat rather than a house)

Really2

MrDT wrote: »

35k as a hairdresser though, wow... how much does she charge? That's a minimum wage job round here, school leaver does an apprenticeship type thing and just keeps doing it for years. If simply going SE meant double the wage for the same work there'd only be self-employed hairdressers out there surely? I might have to retrain and become a self-employed minted barber, thanks for the tip.

Well she runs a salon so employs but is self employed.

Likewise you can not pretend all self employed are earning below the minimum wage.

But if you were good at your job yes you could easily earn £35K cutting hair.

It is funny how people automatically class jobs as not well paid. You are taking trainees presumably unless you think all hairdressers live on a low wage.

PS

If someone is working less hours self employed for the same money they could earn employed I make that better paid (if broken down to hourly rate)

I know what people are saying on life ballance but if you say I do 40 hours for a company or 25 hours self employed for the same money that is a better rate of pay in my eyes.

Unless you don't need the money (eg debt free no morgage with savings) it is difficult to do as a life style..(i belive I went over that earlier)

pps

I have not said all self employed are well off but they are beter paid than there employed counterparts 99% of the time.

wolfman

wolvoman wrote: »

Except your definition of average (median) house. I think you'll find the median house is really only a cheap 2 bed place and not some family size 3/4 bed semi.

Amazing how many people on this board seem to think it is though.

Where was my definition of it?

Anyway, yeah I agree with your definition. It should be affordable in terms of median salary.

Problem for me is I'm lucky enough to earn around quite a way over the "average" salary, but (there's always a but) living in London, I just can't afford what I would consider a reasonable 2 or even 1 bed flat (given the missus is out of work).

I don't mind looking in less desirable places (and I am), but to pay 180k+ for a 1 or 2 bed flat that is in poor condition, or has an awful layout because someone has tried to forge 2 flats out of a nice house, just doesn't attract me in anyway to want to make a purchase. Not that the banks would lend me that amount to start with.

Plus if I want a good mortgage rate I need a 20%+ first payment, which translates into around 30-40k, which takes time to save, and doesn't even take into account additional saving for expenses and taxes.

wolfman

the_ash_and_the_oak wrote: »

Agree with this - pretty sure that traditionally, FTB properties were smallish terraced houses at 3.5 x salary.

Not sure this is really so applicable today, think FTB property more likely to be a one bed apartment. Think it was always something of a struggle to get on that first rung in the past, and is just the same today (tho admittedly for a flat rather than a house)

Yep, same struggle but you're getting less these days and paying more.

Thrugelmir

Really2 wrote: »

Good point all contract workers are self employed and usually get paid more than an equivalent of a full time employee for the same job.:)

No about 150 miles away.

Let me give you an example I used to live in an affluent small town so I could not work out why the average wage for people of that town was only £18K.
It is only recently I clicked that a lot of the people there are business owners or self employed professionals.
Average house price was over £200K so it is fairly obvious that self employed can make a big difference on local average wages.

Sorry the majority of self employed are employers also. The minority of self employed are on man bands (EG contract workers )

In total there are over 5 million people that are either self employed or are directors of a small company. In fact 95% of all firms employ less than 5 people.

If its your business you will reap the rewards of your own endeavours.

Really2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In total there are over 5 million people that are either self employed or are directors of a small company. In fact 95% of all firms employ less than 5 people.

If its your business you will reap the rewards of your own endeavours.

I agree,

I am not saying self employed = mega money.

But I do not think adding self employed would make the average wage lower either (well it might do officialy but we did that earlier:))

Thrugelmir

Really2 wrote: »

I agree,

I am not saying self employed = mega money.

But I do not think adding self employed would make the average wage lower either (well it might do officialy but we did that earlier:))

For many self employed their "profit" is dependent on the economy.

Deflation will be a problem for many as pricing comes under pressure.

Having a secure job in say the NHS with pension scheme and sickness benefits at the current time is better than many self employed "jobs".