CSA in Court - re Charging Order

bdt1

Just a quick update for those of you who know of our scenario.

So, we attended Court this week for the CSA to slap a charging order onour family home, for alleged arrears of 34k, which we have submiited evidence to the contrary as the assessment is TOTALLY incorrect and thus the associated arrears.

We attended Court armed with all of our evidence, even a letter to the Tribunal from CSA Appeals stating that the current assessment is incorrect in law!! Also all info showing we have Tribunal pending, hopefully in next few eeks, but surprise surprise, CSA didn't submit their evidence to Tribunal by deadline, they are over 1 month late.

Anyway, CSA guy caught us before we went in and asked if we wanted to discuss anything, I just took one look at him, but hubs, said he wanted to talk to him - very naive Pd001 I know, so this guy obvioulsy said the purpose of the day was to secure charge order for 34k on our home, so hubs explained that MP, a very senior CSA personnel who we named, ICE and ICO involved as CSA Appeals state this figure is grossly incorrect, and we have TRibunal pending. GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!! This plonker knew nothing of this, went very red in the face, suggested an adjournment pending outcome of Tribunal, and shuffled off.

In the Court Room, he again suggested adjournment pending TRibunal decision, this was granted and then stated he would liase with CSA Appeals, we wer just amazed a guy can be sent to Court to represent the CSA and have no iformation about the case, he didn't even know we'd appealled never mind that Tribunal was pending, and that CSA Appeals have stated the figures are not owed.

We are furious especially as we had begged with every CSA department in the land, involved SL and hopeless MP requesting suspension of enforcement action until Tribunal decision, and they all flatley refused - they have targets apparently, even our poor case worker in CSA Appeals rang Mr Norris in Enforcement requesting suspension of action, as she told him, the monies are not owed, but guess what he refused.

So, we are armed and prepared for the Tribunal, but as they included my child benefit,child tax credits, CSA monies for nrpp 2 children to 1st hubs in household, and nrpp comapny expenses all as nrp assessable income, the case is easily proveable. OH yes, and they did forget there are 4 children in our household - apparently there are none, and also our mortgage is £238 per month, crikey I wish it has been nearer 1k for as long as we can remember but of course we have proof in DP file we have given them this info etc etc - Laurel and HARDY would have ran this show better but hey - guess they got us in another fine mess.

On top of this the PWC is chomping at bit, understandably so she thinks shes due 34k, we are in for major hassle when this is traightened ot and she realises this is not the case - not good for any of the parties concerned!!!!!!!

Blonde_Bint

Whoaa :eek: good luck bdt. by the sounds of it we would all be better off if Laurel and Hardy were running the CSA Show :rotfl: at least L and H are funny.

btw re mad PWC and her non 34k as someone wise once told someone else on her a while back, wear a tin hat lol. dont know who it was but they were spot on.

bdt1

You mean they aren't !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a conspiracy I'm sure - it certainly feels like it and the PWC is gonna kick off big style when she doesn't get what they have led her to believe she is owed, and by the way we are paying a regular figure so she is receiving money from us, just incase anyone thought we were not contributing. BUt it goes without saying she has not allowed access now for 13/14 years if I remember rightly, it's just awful for all concerned.

Blob

In the event that you win and the case is thrown out, ask for cost and a payment for the strees that this case has put you under!

Have a list of all of the cost, time off work travel and anything you can think of and put it in to teh Court, you should get it as well.

bdt1

Thanks Blob we already have a record, you will know how much SL costs alone, but my parents helped us out there! My husband has been ill - genuinely - this has nearly cost us our marriage,amongst other things, I mean who should ever have to explain to their young son what a bailiff is and why it is very important to keep all doors locked - this is a conversation no law abiding citizen should have to have with a child!

We anticipate that although the evidence we hold and although the CSA Appeals agree with us, no doubt they will try and sting us for something - we don't trust them at all, we may win this battle, but the war may not be over!! Anyway, as it seems the reason CSA were over 1 month late in supplying their evidence to Tribunal is because they have 'lost vital evidence' we already knew this as ICO and ICE involved, basically CSA have 'lost' our bank statements, funny really as this is the vital info that supports our case - very strange, especially as apparently 2 senior CRO officers verified the case and told our MP the assessment was correct - amazing if they don't have our bank statements to cross-reference assessable income, etc. Hubs thinks that someone has realised they have made major blunder realised that this is now high profile case with SL, MP ,ICE, ICO and high up CSA person involved, and 'disposed of the evidence'. .....................HMMMMMMMMMMMM Strange that Enforcement on target driven results?

Your views????????

CMAC_2

bdt1 wrote: »

We attended Court armed with all of our evidence, even a letter to the Tribunal from CSA Appeals stating that the current assessment is incorrect in law!! Also all info showing we have Tribunal pending, hopefully in next few eeks, but surprise surprise, CSA didn't submit their evidence to Tribunal by deadline, they are over 1 month late.

What I cant understand is that if the CSA are in agreement and accept your evidence as correct why have central appeals just not revised the assessment in your favour and asked you to withdraw the appeal. This is normally what happens when a error in law has been identified. I have read most of your posts but i dont seem to get be able to get my head around it. I missing something bdt1

bdt1

CMAC, we have also challenged this. We went to a Tribunal in 2005, whereby PWC accused NRP (my hubs) of income inconsistent with declared earnings, she lost her case, but a note was made on the Record of Decision that it may be NRP not being truthful about actual earnings. In fact he had only just started self-employment and did't even have a full years books to show them, so a lot of the questions they asked were stipulated as being 'estimated income'. So on the Tribunal Record of Decisions from 2005, Chairman states, NRP not necessarily fully declaring income, then with regard to current situation and PWC involving CCT, they sent e-mail to very senior CSA personnel (I have copy) stating that Tribunal Record of Decisons suggest looking further into NRP income etc, as NRP not a credible witness.

So, the when we have supplied all evidence with regard to them using child benefit etc etc as assessable income, they are saying as a Tribunal have made the original decision and have stipulated there be further investigation (nonsense inthe Record of Decisions it was not mentioned) CSA Appeals do not have the power to change this. It was a decision made by a Tribunal which can only be changed by a Tribunal. I just feel it's immoral, when there is evidence both CSA and NRP agree is totally agreeable thew debt is not owed, then how can they sat, only a Tribunal can overturn this? As a result a CCJ. LO, interim charge order, bailiffs at home etc etc has been subject.,m for something CSA agree is not owed, but still I have to take another day off work to attend Tribunal hearing with hubs, have stress etc for case which both parties agree is incorrect.

In midst of all this as previously said PWC has been told we owe her 34k, in fact accruing somewhere near 42k now, she has been misled and will be a nightmare with us and CSA when this is sorted and she doesn't get her boathouse or Maldives retreat, as said previoulsy we are paying regularly so not a case of NRP not paying

Blonde_Bint

Do you know, I cant believe it, (I do believe it obviously but it just seems so unbelievable) what a colossal waste of time and energy it is. PWC is paid every month and always has been so what the f*ck is all this court sh*t about grrrrrrr.

a waste of time money and effort is what its all about, imagine the time that the Judge and jury would have on their hands if it wasnt for all these CSA cases. seriously :mad: what did the legal system do with their time before all these CSA cases came about. :mad::mad:

I worked in a solicitors not long back, in their legal aid team department, actually you on here would believe it, but there was a really complicated family where a man and woman had 6 children living under their roof and they all had a different dad really difficult, he was paying out for 2 also, talk about chasing your tail to make it worse one of the dads did everything through the solicitor, real trival mundane cr*p. like ring her and tell her i'll be there at 2 drop presents off and i'll be leaving at 2.15 christ, waste of time:mad: then i've got to ring him back and tell him what she said, I wasnt there long I can tell you. mostly it was full of heartbreak and nastiness.

CMAC_2

bdt1 wrote: »

CMAC, we have also challenged this. We went to a Tribunal in 2005, whereby PWC accused NRP (my hubs) of income inconsistent with declared earnings, I understand this she lost her case, but a note was made on the Record of Decision that it may be NRP not being truthful about actual earnings. This makes no sence how can you win the case and the trib not find fact In fact he had only just started self-employment and did't even have a full years books to show them, so a lot of the questions they asked were stipulated as being 'estimated income'. So on the Tribunal Record of Decisions from 2005, Chairman states, NRP not necessarily fully declaring income, The Chairmen at this point must have identified a income figure which was found as fact or at least expected as the lifestyle based upon fact then with regard to current situation and PWC involving CCT, CCT might have been involved but not at the request of the trib, they cant do that as they can only confirm or replace the original decision they sent e-mail to very senior CSA personnel (I have copy) stating that Tribunal Record of Decisons suggest looking further into NRP income etc, as NRP not a credible witness. If this is the case then SL should have requested leave to appeal as this is clearly against the principle of Nat Justice

So, the when we have supplied all evidence with regard to them using child benefit etc etc So at this point its a brand new decision based on new evidence as assessable income, they are saying as a Tribunal have made the original decision It was not a decision it was a obsivation the triburand have stipulated there be further investigation (nonsense inthe Record of Decisions it was not mentioned) CSA Appeals do not have the power to change this. Yes they dont because its a new desioion at at this point no appeal has been lodged It was a decision made by a Tribunal which can only be changed by a Tribunal. NO it was not a decision made by the trib it was a obsivation acted upon by the csa from the tribl resulted in a new assesment (it might have wrong info) but its not a tribural decison. I just feel it's immoral, when there is evidence both CSA and NRP agree is totally agreeable thew debt is not owed, then how can they sat, only a Tribunal can overturn this? This brings me back to my original point if the evidence is agreed why has there been no attempt to resolve this under alternitive appeals regs. As a result a CCJ. LO, interim charge order, bailiffs at home etc etc has been subject.,m for something CSA agree is not owed, but still I have to take another day off work to attend Tribunal hearing with hubs, have stress etc for case which both parties agree is incorrect.

In midst of all this as previously said PWC has been told we owe her 34k, in fact accruing somewhere near 42k now, she has been misled and will be a nightmare with us and CSA when this is sorted and she doesn't get her boathouse or Maldives retreat, as said previoulsy we are paying regularly so not a case of NRP not paying

please see red

Blonde_Bint

Oh i'm seeing red alright :rotfl: look at me just look at me :mad: I cant make head or tail of it its all confusing to me. I sympathise with all of you tangled up in the financial web that is the csa, aka cr*p n sh*te for all. where the only guarantee is that everyone involved is on to a loser.

PlayingHardball

OP - do you have any clear ideas how much arrears are actually owed? If any? It must be terrible going through all you have been through, sounds like a nightmare!

I'm currently using CSA to chase NRP for arrears (ligit arrears) and when successful (positive thinking) I hope to pay off debts incurred over the past year when the NRP decided he couldn't afford to support his child, partly due to his lifestyle (he recently got married in an exotic country and forked out £8k for him and his lovely to do so)

Good luck and sorry for your stress, hope your situation gets resolved to everyones satisfaction and soon.