deed of variation

shortbread

Hi wasnt sure where to put this..........however will appreciate any information

My boyfriend recently lost his father( officially stepfather). He has looked after boyfriend and his siblings for the last 30 odd years. So in their eyes he was their father. However after his sudden death , they have realised there is no will. He has a house and the mortgage etc will be paid off due to an endowment etc. So when the house is sold there will be an estate.

My boyfriends dad has two siblings. Obviously they would be due the estate due to intestacy. My boyfriend and his siblings feel upset about this as they know their dad would have wanted them to inherit. The aunt and uncle have said that if there is anything left after the house is sold , my boyfriend and his siblings are quite welcome to it..............however they are unaware that there is possibly around about 90k. Boyfriends sister has just been made aware that the mortgage will be paid off.They have already signed letters to give boyfriends sister power of administrator as there is no will. My boyfriend and his sister arranged the funeral and the bill is in my boyfriends name, the aunt and uncle were quite happy for this to happen.

is there anything at all possible that can be done so that my boyfriend and his brother and sister can receive the estate , rather than the aunt and uncle??

I have heard about deed of family arrangement or variation............is this possible here? Could my boyfriend and his brother and sister get the aunt and uncle to agree to this and therefore sign away any right to the estate?

Any information would be greatly received


Thanks

dzug1

Simplest solution: the aunt and uncle receive the inheritance and gift it. Advantage - free. Disadvantage - potential inheritance tax when they pass on.

A Deed of Variation gets over this - but all must agree to it and it will cost. In theory you can do it without a solicitor but there are pitfalls in doing so. (You get the wording wrong and you are back in IHT land)

shortbread

They had considered this............however, boyfriend and siblings are not sure this will happen when aunt and uncle actually get hands on the cash.........

Though they have already signed documents to say they are handing over the administration to boyfriends sister and that they are quite happy for boyfriend and siblings to receive whats left of the estate, they might not be the same when they realise what is left. When the cash is in their hands, they might not ant to gift it after all.


So that's why I was thinking deed of variance through a solicitor.......but just wanted information on if this could work and how so?

Thanks

dzug1

shortbread wrote: »

They had considered this............however, boyfriend and siblings are not sure this will happen when aunt and uncle actually get hands on the cash.........

Though they have already signed documents to say they are handing over the administration to boyfriends sister and that they are quite happy for boyfriend and siblings to receive whats left of the estate, they might not be the same when they realise what is left. When the cash is in their hands, they might not ant to gift it after all.


So that's why I was thinking deed of variance through a solicitor.......but just wanted information on if this could work and how so?

Thanks

Yes it will work provided those adversely affected agree. In order for them to meaningfully agree they will have to know what they are giving up - you can't really pull the wool over their eyes in this respect.

The solicitor will draw up a deed, get consent from all those who need to give it and then the administrators distribute the estate in accordance with the deed rather than the intestacy rules.

Pee

You are probably looking at £600 - £900 for the Deed of Variation. It can be done before the Grant is through and without knowledge of the full size of the estate - althoough your boyfriends solicitor will suggest the aunt and uncle take independent legal advice.

It will work but only if they have agreed to it and signed it - and it may well cause problems between the family later...

It works as the people due to inherit vary their inheritance.

shortbread

I have heard a DOV would only cost about £200?? My boyfriends sister is now waiting for all the probate stuff to come through, they do not have a solicitor, so do you suggest the DOV is done now rather than later?


We have no clue what the house is worth to be honest, so don't really know the full value of the estate, so would a valuation need to be done before the DOV?

Also can a solicitor just draw up the DOV and then get the aunt and uncle just to read it and sign it ? Or do they have to be involved in every step?

The funeral expenses are in my boyfriends name, as the aunt and uncle made no attempt to arrange it or offer any payment, can the funeral payment be made from the estate and do you know if undertakers are okay with this, as my boyfriend really cant afford the £3000 right now.

All help totally appreciated

John_Pierpoint

This can all get very messy at a family level. It is a great shame step father appears not to have even managed to realise the chaos his untimely departure could cause.

I think before we all rush to give "good advice" we really need to know more about the family dynamics involved.
Let's go through the potential noses that might be put out of joint:
Did step father still have living parents?
Do step uncle and auntie have children of their own?
What happened to step father's legal partner (presumably boy friend's mother?)
Assuming that she has died, what became of her estate?
Did step father have an opportunity to adopt boyfriend?
What became of boyfriend's biological father?
Does step father have other biological children legitimate or otherwise?
Presumably Stepfather was a citizen living in England and the Estate (ie house furniture savings car etc etc) is all in England?
Are all these people citizens of England (ie not Scotland/France/South Africa etc) as different countries and cultures have different attitudes towards family wealth.

shortbread

I have tried to answer the questions below. Right from beginning, the step aunt and uncle have said that whatever is in estate can go to the children.Boyfriend and his sister and brother. When signing letters for the probate, they thought they had been signing away any rights to the estate, so it looks like they are fully ready to bypass any cash they would receive from the estate............however when it comes down to hard cash, there are always tempations


Did step father still have living parents? NO
Do step uncle and auntie have children of their own? Yes
What happened to step father's legal partner (presumably boy friend's mother?) Died 7 years ago
Assuming that she has died, what became of her estate?
Did step father have an opportunity to adopt boyfriend? Biological father refused
What became of boyfriend's biological father? still alive
Does step father have other biological children legitimate or otherwise? Son died 4 years ago
Presumably Stepfather was a citizen living in England and the Estate (ie house furniture savings car etc etc) is all in England? Yes
Are all these people citizens of England (ie not Scotland/France/South Africa etc) as different countries and cultures have different attitudes towards family wealth. yes


Thanks

CLAPTON

Firstly what is being considered here is basically fraud.
The inheritance is legally the Aunt and Uncle's and to try to cheat them is illegal.

As far as the funeral is concerned the person doing the probabate stuff can ask the deceased bank to release funds for the funeral expenses.

Bear in mind that the estate's administrator is legally liable for its proper execution and could be sued later if they fail to carry out the function correctly.

Don't rely on the comments on this board but get a solicitor for expert advice.

shortbread

Its not fraud if the aunt and uncle are willing to pass on the estate now is it???

They already signed letters which sister in law thought was them passing over their desire for share of the estate, however it turned out it was only letters to give her right to become administrator. However, they offered these letters thinking they were handing over the estate to the stepchildren...............so the deed of Variance would infact be the official way of completing what they had first thought right??

There is nothing fraudulent happening at all...........it is basically trying to sort something out so that the estate is divided in the way the deceased would want........ie to his children rather than to brother and sister who he barely saw from year to year.

There is no cheating going on.............the simple facts are there is prob more estate than was once thought.

There is zero cash in deceased bank account for the funeral!!!

Obviously the administrator, my boyfriends sister would not be trying to do anything underhand, not entirely sure why you think they are trying to cheat anyone out of anything!

dzug1

Well I would regard it as cheating if the uncle and aunt give up their right to the estate without having the chance to reconsider in the light of at least a rough estimate of what's involved. There's at least a hint in your post of pushing things through without telling them. Maybe unintentional poor wording - but it's there.

Most undertakers will give time to pay until after probate.