Soup kitchen queues grow as US teeters on brink of new downturn

dopester

mgardner wrote: »

Surely we would not want to see this here or anywhere for that matter

We can't afford it. People should have worked and saved - not expect some magic to come along with free money for a citizen's income. I doubt Disney has a whip on those old and disabled people they employ, and to whom your heart goes out to.

Well done to Disney USA for employing them - as other employers might discriminate more - and I would imagine they have a history of having been fair employers - paying market rates (and I believe a lot of benefits.. such as including healthcare, dental, life assurance). Where do you think money, job creation, wealth creation comes from? All business exploiting people?

199 Chances in 200 of Escaping Poverty

An American's chance of staying poor is less than 1/2% if he or she does the following three things: (a) completes high school; (b) gets and stays married; (c) stays employed, even if initially only at the minimum wage. Americans who fail these three requirements have an up-to-80 times greater chance of staying for a long time below the official poverty line, and breeding sad generations there.

-Economist, April 25, 1987

Anyone who cultivates basic skills and the discipline of work can capitalise on the social mobility of the marketplace. As the Economist reported, the odds in favour of escaping poverty in the postwar United States were 200:1 for anyone who took these three simple steps:

1. Finished high school.
2. Refrained from having children out of wedlock.
3. Took a job, even if at the minimum wage, and did not quit except to take another job.

These are no mysterious steps that could be taken only by initiatives in the higher circles of society. They are common-sense behaviours anyone could follow if he wished. The underclass do not. They choose impoverishing behaviour - "out-of-wedlock births, school inattendance, dismissing lower-paid jobs as "chump change."

wigglebeena

I would not put a bet on a horse at odds of 200:1.

Oh, OK, skimmed that wrong. 199 chances in 200? Really?

carolt

So dopester - would you really want to walk past another human being starving or dying of hunger, shrug, and say: "Well it's your own fault".

Even if it were true, which is unlikely to be the case in many circumstances, surely it would be immoral?

Whilst I don't think those who refuse to work should live in luxury, nor do I think those those who can't work should starve.

Explain, please.

dopester

carolt wrote: »

Whilst I don't think those who refuse to work should live in luxury, nor do I think those those who can't work should starve.

Same here. Soup-kitchens as a safety net are great. An incentive to save, not to be reckless, not to expect someone else to pay your way in life, so as not have to end up having to feed in one..

The benefit programs in the UK abets the wasting of people's lives with perverse benefit incentives which impose effective tax rates of 100 percent or more on those who shun welfare to take a job. In many instances, the total value of benefit payments exceeds the after-tax income of some in the workplace. Realised with little or no daily effort.

Souper.

carolt

I agree totally with this bit.

Maybe I misead your earlier post?

Do you think all those who have children out of wedlock, fail to finish high school or are sometimes unemployed are thereby responsible and it's OK for them to starve?

!!!! happens to people, accidents happen to people.

dopester

carolt wrote: »

I agree totally with this bit.

Maybe I misead your earlier post?

Do you think all those who have children out of wedlock, fail to finish high school or are sometimes unemployed are thereby responsible and it's OK for them to starve?

!!!! happens to people, accidents happen to people.

Not to starve.. absolutely not. And insurance is there for accidents - or savings in the good years - or even that guy who lost both his legs and still became a millionaire... commitment and dedication.

To be given housing benefits and Sharron Matthews-mother style money... who never had a job if I remember correctly... for housing to drinking, SKY subscriptions, takeaways, holidays to Spain.. No, no, no.

Part of the problem has been the growth of income redistribution - which reflects the deteriorating capacity of governments to maintain order. The political etiquette of this process has served to disguise the degree to which many of the poor contribute to their own plight. A major cause of poverty and rising social disorder are the life-style choices of the poor themselves. Chronic failure to take advantage of abundant educational opportunities, for example, assures that incomes among the lower class will not rise in a period when returns from manual work fall.

Yet we hear very little overt criticism of the unwillingness among the poor to apply themselves. Quite the opposite. The common response is to exonerate the poor for their part in economic decline, while the more productive and successful are blamed. This makes about as much sense as a farmer beating his most productive cows because the rest of his herd is dry. The rising tide of resentment against achievement is a negative indicator for the future.

nearlynew

We live in a rich country. With advanced technology and relative peace all of us should be able to enjoy a fulfilling, relatively stress-free life and know that our children and our children’s children should be able to do the same.

But how many people in the country can say that?

There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that is so bathed in riches but fails to deliver, by and large, a decent quality of life for so many of its people.

The political parties will give you their solutions......


More taxation. Less taxation.

More spending. Less spending.

Tax the rich. Tax the poor.

Subsidise this. Cut that.

Create more targets.

Blame the teachers. Blame single mothers.
More choice. More regulation. Open up the market.
Retrain. Refinance.

Invent a slogan. Drop a slogan. Remake the figures.

Build more roads. Build less roads. Promote gambling. Work harder.

Ban this. Create a quango to encourage that. Criticise the opposition. Blame immigration. Wage war.

Reward your friends. Take a bribe.

Split a government department. Merge two others.

Give them a bit more power. Takes theirs away.

Then call an election so we can start all over again.



The result? We can still afford nothing.

The inability of our society to deliver a good life both economically and socially for all its people in the face of an abundance of manifest riches, has a major root cause.

Because the politics of the country does not permit itself to address that root cause, no real lasting progress is ever made.




Small government, sound money

IveSeenTheLight

dopester wrote: »

and those who refuse to STR after seeing their homes shoot-up in value.

Surely someone who has built up equity by way of HPI is actually saving others from getting into so much debt by not selling, or are you advocating people sell to these "mugs" who will be in greater debt than the original owners?

dopester wrote: »

Then save up for it and stop expecting everyone else to pay your way.

Sound advice, get on with your life and stop expecting things to happen to you, make it happen for you.

PasturesNew

Last night I was watching some series of programmes based on racing drivers in the 60s and 70s.

And I think Jackie Stewart covered it when he was asked how he'd got where he had.

He used the word "luck" a lot, lucky to be in the right place at the right time .. lucky to meet the right people .. lucky to be introduced to the right people. He ended up saying "I am a very lucky boy".

Luck is something most people won't attribute their success to. They will say it's hard work. Well, those that don't do so well have often worked just as hard, even harder, but just not been as lucky.

Weren't lucky enough to be selected for interview, weren't lucky enough to live in the right place, weren't lucky enough to go to the right school, weren't lucky enough to have an opportunity, weren't lucky enough to be picked.

Luck ... it's got a LOT to do with it.

IveSeenTheLight

I agree, luck can help.
I do think that you can make luck happen by being there and putting yourself in the position for the luck to happen