Confused & Disappointed - Pension Transfer

Pal

Of course, just because someone has had a good past experience with a certain selection of funds does not mean that anyone else will in the future.

If Kitty is saying that Scot Widows have a good admin system, are quick to invest money, have a good helpline etc then that is fine, but any recommendation of funds based on past performance is unfortunately worthless. If it was a worthwhile investment criteria then anyone could be an IFA.

Kitty also says that she has transferred out of those funds. Perhaps not a great recommendation going forward?

Great care is needed.

As Kitty says, exercise caution and do you own research. JohnG's IFA will already have helped start this process, even if he doesn't want him to finish it.

"!!!!!ing" and "venom" is perhaps a bit strong. I would call it "Healthy heated debate".

[Deleted User]

I have moved out of the stakeholder because I want to avoid the 1% charge and I want to move out of funds. Timing is also important as I am of the opinion that UKX is topping at around 6120 and this is a good time for us to be in cash.

A sipp will also give me transparency. I have a good deal of (successful) experience in stock and portfolio management. Actually the IFA who recommended the stakeholder did so because my husband wanted somewhere to put his accumulated pension fund as it had to be moved out of a directors pension. My DH is about to retire and I now have his authority to manage his pension.

Now to put a couple of of my cards on the table:
our IFA wanted to charge 3% and an ongoing trail of 0.5% pa on setting up a sipp. That would have cost thousands. The actual cost was £150 and half an hour filling in a simple form

There are hundreds of funds available in sippdeal. 400 of which have no initial charge

There is more but no doubt I would get shouted down. Suffice it to say that I place no IFA on a pedestal

Looking back the 8.1 % growth (after charges) was good but the whole stock market was on an uptrend so every fund should have grown

I must add the caveat to please dyor

whiteflag_3

kittie wrote:

There are hundreds of funds available in sippdeal. 400 of which have no initial charge

Why is this relavent when you have stated you will not be investing in funds?

The moment you do you will instantly be paying more in charges than you were on your stakeholder, therefore you would surely be worse off!

[Deleted User]

funds are for those who have no confidence or time to invest in stocks. It is relevant to the opening post

There are hundreds of funds. This may help
http://whl.financialexpress.net/afi/Methodology.aspx

(click on the coloured squares to get a list of funds)

I also suggest looking at fund manager performance and rating. All details are to be had by doing web searches

Stakeholders are very limited in the choice of funds available

whiteflag_3

kittie wrote:

funds are for those who have no confidence or time to invest in stocks. It is relevant to the opening post

There are hundreds of funds. This may help
http://whl.financialexpress.net/afi/Methodology.aspx

(click on the coloured squares to get a list of funds)

I also suggest looking at fund manager performance and rating. All details are to be had by doing web searches

Stakeholders are very limited in the choice of funds available

Sorry, I thought you were posting your own views why you thought Sipps were good for you.

Of course JohnG s attitude to risk/ experience means he would only be investing funds and therefore I think you have to be carefull not to mislead that all Sipps are cheaper than stakeholders.

While i agree stakeholders have limited fund choices there are many PPs that are cheaper than stakeholders with very wide fund choices

Id like to hear reasons why the Scot Eq Universal Balanced Fund is unsuitable for JohnG, as it has won many plaudits from the industry and pension trustees?

[Deleted User]

I cannot comment on an individual fund as the only research I have done is for what is relevant to our own circumstances

re past performance: the stockmarket has been in a bull market since 2003 and almost every fund chart is showing steady growth since that date. A difficult situation may be occurring now in that this may be the top of the bull run

EdInvestor

Whiteflag

whiteflag wrote:

So how come Ive just set up a couple of PPs with amcs of 0.6%, and no other charges. Granted your Sipp has more fund choice but for new DIYers surely more choice is more confusion. Even with HL the lowest AMCS are more than double my recommendation

You've missed the point of my post. I said that while it may be possible to get a cheaper pension with a wide fund choice via an IFA, if you are trying to do this without an IFA ( either because you don't want to pay his fee or you don't trust IFAs or there are none near you or whatever), then it's almost impossible to find out the relevant information about what good value offers may be in the market. I'm not saying the value offers don't exist, just that the info is not available to joe public.

So using a SIPP is the easiest route.


Pal

I have no idea whether HL are the cheapest SIPP for fund investment, however it appears to me that they are not the cheapest PENSION vehicle for fund investment.

I don't think I have ever said the HL SIPP was the cheapest overall pension for funds - AFAIK ( no personal experience and certainly no connection) it is the cheapest SIPP for regular savers using funds.

This is because it doesn't charge a dealing fee for regular contributions into funds.In that way it is more like a PP than the other cheap SIPPs.It is a bit of a hybrid, with the features of both a PP and a SIPP.

whiteflag_3

EdInvestor wrote:

Whiteflag



[

STRIKE]You've missed the point of my post. I said that while it may be possible to get a cheaper pension with a wide fund choice via an IFA, if you are trying to do this without an IFA ( either because you don't want to pay his fee or you don't trust IFAs or there are none near you or whatever), then it's almost impossible to find out the relevant information about what good value offers may be in the market. I'm not saying the value offers don't exist, just that the info is not available to joe public.

So using a SIPP is the easiest route. [/STRIKE]

Are you seriously sugeesting that setiing up a sipp for the DIY er is easier than calling a few IFAs and asking them if they can do you a deal?

Of course the info is available to joe public they just have lift up the phone and ask.

EdInvestor

You're missing the point AGAIN.:rolleyes:

How do I, a member of the public, find out which providers are offering cheap pension deals without calling an IFA?

Pal

EdInvestor wrote:

I don't think I have ever said the HL SIPP was the cheapest overall pension for funds - AFAIK ( no personal experience and certainly no connection) it is the cheapest SIPP for regular savers using funds.

You may not have said it was the cheapest pension, but you seem to go out of your way to imply that it is the best deal for anyone looking to invest in funds, when that is clearly not the case. This is a moneysaving site, not a SIPP promotion site. Can't you bring yourself to state that people looking to invest in funds should look into doing so through an IFA so that they can get the lowest charges? You constantly mention the 30% impact of charges on final returns, and state that they should be minimised, and yet you continue to post as if a SIPP, specifically the HL product, is the best deal for fund investors, which clearly is not the case.

If people want to buy their own stocks, Kitty for example, then SIPPs are the way to go, but for fund options it is the case of finding the cheapest way of doing it.

Also if people want to mix funds with individual investments, then they can get two pensions - the cheapest personal pension for their fund choices (possibly through an IFA), and a SIPP for their direct investment.

EdInvestor wrote:

How do I, a member of the public, find out which providers are offering cheap pension deals without calling an IFA?

The same way that you find out which is the cheapest supermarket, car showroom, furniture shop etc. You visit websites or phone up and ask. One of the advantages of an IFA is that they have databases of these things so you don't have to do it.

It seems to me that the way to go for JohnG and any others looking to invest in funds, is:

- Do his research, choose what funds he wants to invest in;
- Look for a provider that offers those fund choices. Note down the charges quoted for direct access. This could include SIPP providers.
- Discuss this with an IFA. They will help clarify the fund choices, and then advise whether they can get any of them cheaper, and the best vehicle to use. If the IFA is paid commission then that is fine, as long as the charges are the cheapest available. If the IFA cannot get the funds cheaper, go direct.

This is a long process. The research task is frankly enormous to do properly. It does however guarantee the lowest annual fees without reliance on an IFA to provide the advice on the fund choices, as everyone appears to be a cynic when it comes to advice from IFAs.

Anyone have any comments on the above?