Markets and Morals: Radio 4, Tues 9pm

penguine

I've heard the trail for this a couple of times and it sounds interesting -- though it's not clear from this page, it sounds like the first lecture is going to focus on issues surrounding the current economic crisis.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kt7sh

Michael Sandel, Harvard Professor of Government, delivers four lectures about the prospects of a new politics of the common good. The series is presented and chaired by Sue Lawley.

Sandel considers the expansion of markets and how we determine their moral limits. Should immigrants, for example, pay for citizenship? Should we pay schoolchildren for good test results, or even to read a book? He calls for a more robust public debate about such questions, as part of a 'new citizenship'.

harryhound

Repeated R4 Saturday night 13june @ 22:15.

I think he made a few good points about markets NOT being the ideal mechanism for some decisions/distributions; for example blood donors in UK do a better job than blood sellers in the USA.

However when it comes to an issue like "Climate Change", I despair that altruism will win the day, in a world where desperate people (say a billion) are likely to go hungry and the wealthy ones (like us) certainly don't want to give up what we have (through hard honest work of course) for fear of joining them in the scrabble for a living at the bottom of the heap.

It is easier for Harvard professors to pontificate on these issues from their "positions of Academic Freedom of speech supported by security of tenure."
Is it possible that such professors are a little out of touch with the realities for the rest of the world's 6.75 billion citizens?

Expect more debates about those that cannot be "made redundant" like this one:

Adjunct faculty are part-time lecturers not on the tenure track. They have the shortest contracts [with the university] of all faculty, ranging from a single quarter to one year. They cannot be fired during the time they are contracted to the university, but after that period they can be let go in the sense that their contract does not get renewed.
Tenured professors, on the other hand, can only be fired for cause.

Certainly a hot debate in academic circles, in a time of slump.

Harry

penguine

I think his point about carbon trading was a good one: that it risks being seen as a fee, rather than a fine. Companies in richer countries are actually paying to outsource pollution to poorer countries.

As an example of a fine being seen as a fee, he mentioned the case of a nursery in Israel which had a problem with parents collecting their children late -- after stated closing times. A member of staff would then have to stay late, so they thought they would introduce a late collection fee. What ended up happening was that more children were collected late than before. Parents had previously felt guilty about inconveniencing a member of staff by collecting their children late. Once a fine was introduced, they felt they were paying a fee for a service, that of collecting their children later than usual.

He then extrapolated from this example to others in which introducing a fee has the opposite effect from that which is being aimed for.

harryhound

I suppose if the fine/fee was high enough, the nursery could afford to employ me as baby minder for the late parents? (Heart felt suggestion as I often found myself the last kid to be collected from the annoyed teacher:o).

Similarly if the "carbon tax" were high enough, it might pay for the "end of pipe" carbon capture technology for those determined not to cut theri carbon footprint?

nearlynew

In a way, the problems implied by "global warming" and "peak oil" are the same.
As are the solutions..........

Reduce consumption and reliance on fossil fuels and find alternative, sustainable ways of providing energy.

Whatever the solution, you can guarantee one thing - we will be paying through higher taxes.

harryhound

Don't forget it is on again tomorrow Tuesday.

It is also being repeated on the world service at least twice over the weekend.

The world service usually does not have to worry about the 1 week listen again rule on the domestic channels.
The "Irish" version of the World service is available on digital and the central European version is available to those of us in the Eastern half of England on 648 medium wave.
I think the transmitter is in Suffolk.

Harry.

I think next episode will discuss baby farming.

JonnyBravo

harryhound wrote: »

I think next episode will discuss baby farming.

Babies as the crop or as the farmers?

Or both?



You'll be telling me about spider babies next.

harryhound

as in "Granny Farm".

harryhound

Oh dear I'm talking to myself, did nobody else listen this week?

It turns out that the good professor is a Rhodes man. So, unlike the majority of the citizens of USA he has managed to get out and about a bit.:T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_Scholarship

I enjoyed the "joke" about the dangers of using a pricing mechanism when you don't want to push a "morality" argument. (From the Latin "mores" just meaning the customs of the people?).

For those of you who missed the programme:
Those in charge at the then all women Oxford college of St Anne's got all hot and bothered, when they discovered that certain gentlemen friends seemed to be gatecrashing breakfast:eek::eek:.
A lively debate ensued but it got somewhat bogged down in rival arguments of "morality", so it degenerated into "what is the extra cost of an overnight stay". Creating the University slogan that "St Anne's Girls cost 50 pence a night".:rotfl:

Presumably this debate is no longer relevant:

Reunion Dinner for the years of 1979, 1989 & 1999
This reunion event for Senior Members who matriculated in 1979, 1989 and 1999 will be held at St Anne's, on Saturday 21st March.
Dinner will be held at 7pm and pre-dinner, drinks will be served from 6:45pm.

This year it is 30 years since St Anne's became a co-educational institution, and we are commemorating this event with the first mixed intake in 1979, as well as the 20th and 10th anniversaries for the years of 1988 and 1999.

Overnight accommodation will be available for the Saturday night, allocated on a firstcome-first-serve basis - guests are very welcome. Invitations have been sent out, but if you have not yet received your invitation and would like to book your place at the dinner, as well as bed & breakfast accommodation in College, please download and complete the booking form on our website and return by email to [EMAIL="xxxxxxx@st-annes.ox.ac.uk"]xxxxxxx@st-annes.ox.ac.uk[/EMAIL] or post to the Development Office, St Anne's College,
Oxford. OX2 6HS.
The closing date for bookings is Friday 13 March.

Was that unlucky for some?

I think my immediate thought was that this was an example of the inherent "conservatism" lurking in England's premier university.

Can anyone remember the name of the academic at Birmingham Uni, who gained notoriety by dishing out 1960's style "full strength" contraceptive pills like they were "Smarties"?

This story from the professor's time at Oxford, was the introduction to a discussion of "Surrogacy":
What would you, a couple with problems of carrying an embryo to full term, pay to have someone else do the 9 month stint for you?
In parts of USA it costs circa 20K USD ?
In Europe it is illegal but "expenses" can be paid (Westminster humbug style?). "Casualty" (BBC1) featured someone being paid 15K GBP in expenses.
If this is a bit steep, try going "offshore". There is a midwife in Mumbai who is delivering 3 or 4 "European" contracts for about a third of these Western prices.

How does this route to a happy family stack up against "Doing a Madonna"?

For other "medical tourism" opportunities, try this thread:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=465304

I found it a bit of a "deep" discussion this week, So I think I will have to listen again to clarify my thoughts; but I think the professor has sparked a "light bulb" moment for me in his analysis of Marriage versus Civil Partnership.

More on this theme after I've had a "think".