Help! Green and ethical grocery shopping confusion

NualaBuala

Hi everyone,

Over the past while I've been trying to live a better life and as part of that I want to be as green and ethical as possible. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed - it's so hard to know where to start. I've improved some of my habits like what I use for laundry but I'm very much a work in progress.

I'm not vegetarian but I haven't bought any meat in ages - I'm using up what's in the freezer. I had been planning to buy organic meat after that but as it's expensive it would mean eating meat only once or twice a week which is fairly typical for me anyway. I eat a fair bit of tinned tuna and frozen fish at the mo which would be hard to give up. I buy free range or organic eggs. I use a lot of milk, about 4 - 6L per week. This mainly goes in tea and a little on porridge. I was thinking of switching to organic but started wondering is there any point if I'm not using organic cheese, butter and other dairy products? And I had never heard about debeaking - on another thread I read that some organic organisations allow this. My motivation for going organic would mainly be animal welfare, and my next concern is the environment, then health probably.

I feel so confused just thinking of all this! I just don't know where to start and how far to take it. I would consider becoming vegetarian but I'd rather not if I could help it. Veganism would be even harder but I wouldn't rule it out. I could see myself making these sorts of changes gradually.

I'd like to see a 'How to be green and ethical while not spending a fortune' instruction manual! At least then I'd know what I should be aspiring to. So if anyone has any opinions or advice I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Thanks,

Nuala

greenbee

First of all, congratulations on having thought about it enough to realise that this is a very difficult area!

You need to work out what your priorities are from a green and ethical perspective. Is it carbon emissions? Organic agriculture? Animal welfare? Pollution? Fairtrade? Workers rights? Nuclear? Sustainability?

Some useful websites:
http://www.goodguide.com/browse
http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/index.php?nothanks=1
http://www.wen.org.uk/
http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/
http://www.theecologist.org/
http://www.soilassociation.org/
http://www.organicfarmers.org.uk/

There are plenty of lifestyle books on the subject - things like save cash and save the planet, but there are also more specialist ones too.

As far as the milk goes - it's the little things that count, and a lot of people are of the opinion that if you can't afford to go completely organic, milk is a good place to start.

If you really want to be a green and ethical shopper, you'll save a lot of money, as you'll find yourself involved in an ethical dilemma over nearly every purchase! And after all, reducing consumption is probably the greenest thing we can do!

Good luck with your research and decisions!

NualaBuala

Thanks greenbee :T I'll bookmark those sites and work my way through them and I'll look out for books too. That's a good point you raise about the different aspects of being green and ethical. I suppose I'd sort of hoped that I could tick all the boxes with a single course of action - save animals, humanity, the planet, my waistline and my purse!:D I will have to think a lot about this.

Unfortunately when I get confused (which is often) I end up sort of giving up and just buying thoughtlessly rather than not buying at all. So having some sort of personal policy will help me.

Right, I will give the organic milk a go in the meantime while I'm researching all this. So please keep all advice and thoughts coming. And be as brutal as you like. I do believe everyone has the right to choose how to live but I realise I haven't been making an informed choice. There are so many issues I'd never known about and still don't know much about. Had never heard of debeaking until today. Sounds awful!:eek:

Ben84

Lots of good links there Greenbee, some new to me, but I have to say I'm concerned about http://www.goodguide.com/

There are companies getting high ratings in things they very much don't deserve.

Kimberly-Clark have a 10/10 - Excellent rating for Habitat conservation. However, they clear cut thousands of Km of forest each year to make their products, some of which is from ancient forests. This is certainly not sustainable farmed wood from managed forests, this is a corporation turning large areas natural forest in to a sea of dead tree stumps. There is an ongoing Greenpeace campaign about this, and KC have yet to put in place any clear policy on recycled content as well. If Kimberly-Clark get 10/10 for this rating then I wonder what you'd have to do to get a 9/10 or lower!

The issues with their ratings continue with other companies. McDonald's score very highly in Habitat conservation with another 10/10. No mention of their extensive links to rainforest destruction through beef farming that depletes the land in a few years causing farmers to move on to more land and chop down more rainforest. Not to mention their extensive use of palm oil.

As for their data on Nestle, their high ratings (excellent, to use their description) on issues like labour rights are, well, do I even need to list what's wrong with their business model? They're pretty infamous for their corporate irresponsibility.

I don't actually know what's going on with www.goodguide.com, but I don't find it a good representation of the companies and products listed. Some of their data is significantly in contrast to what seems to be happening.

Mojisola

NualaBuala wrote: »

I'm not vegetarian but I haven't bought any meat in ages - I'm using up what's in the freezer. I had been planning to buy organic meat after that but as it's expensive it would mean eating meat only once or twice a week which is fairly typical for me anyway. I eat a fair bit of tinned tuna and frozen fish at the mo which would be hard to give up. I buy free range or organic eggs. I use a lot of milk, about 4 - 6L per week. This mainly goes in tea and a little on porridge. I was thinking of switching to organic but started wondering is there any point if I'm not using organic cheese, butter and other dairy products? And I had never heard about debeaking - on another thread I read that some organic organisations allow this. My motivation for going organic would mainly be animal welfare, and my next concern is the environment, then health probably.

No UK organic certification body allows debeaking so you don't need to worry about buying organic eggs.

Good luck on making changes - every small thing is a step in the right direction and helps support those who are running ethical businesses.

NualaBuala

The whole things seems like a minefield. It's so hard to decide what's best.

As a start, I've decided to switch to organic milk - bought it today. Not all my local shops have it but I'll get it whenever I can.

I got Fair Trade bananas and tea. I've been getting those for a while now and the prices are ok and I can't think of any better alternatives so I'll stick with that.

I switched to buying 100% recycled toilet paper and tissues (not sure of the brand but they're from Aldi) and have cut down on the amount I use.

I'm using Oxfam's Fair Trade soap nuts for my laundry. On the one hand, they're not local but on the other hand they don't have nasty chemicals and hopefully buying Fair Trade helps too.

I'm trying to reduce, reuse, recycle and compost but I'm nowhere near perfect.

Most of the clothes I've bought recently are from Penneys (Primark) as they're cheap and charity shops never seem to have stuff in my size. I had avoided shopping there for years but I read a piece on their website and it sounds like they are trying to improve things for their factory workers. It's still a concern. I did buy a few Fair Trade tee shirts in M&S too.

I've got a lot of CFLs at home but some lamps have ordinary bulbs. If I'm buying new ones I'll get CFLs.

I'm not sure what my next change should be. I haven't read all those websites yet so I might get some inspiration there but I'd welcome any suggestions.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

If you need to do some baking, why not get a bag of organic flour and sugar? Basics like these don't make such a hole in the budget and last for ages, unlike prebaked goods.

greenbee

Ben84 wrote: »

Lots of good links there Greenbee, some new to me, but I have to say I'm concerned about http://www.goodguide.com/

There are companies getting high ratings in things they very much don't deserve.

Kimberly-Clark have a 10/10 - Excellent rating for Habitat conservation. However, they clear cut thousands of Km of forest each year to make their products, some of which is from ancient forests. This is certainly not sustainable farmed wood from managed forests, this is a corporation turning large areas natural forest in to a sea of dead tree stumps. There is an ongoing Greenpeace campaign about this, and KC have yet to put in place any clear policy on recycled content as well. If Kimberly-Clark get 10/10 for this rating then I wonder what you'd have to do to get a 9/10 or lower!

The issues with their ratings continue with other companies. McDonald's score very highly in Habitat conservation with another 10/10. No mention of their extensive links to rainforest destruction through beef farming that depletes the land in a few years causing farmers to move on to more land and chop down more rainforest. Not to mention their extensive use of palm oil.

As for their data on Nestle, their high ratings (excellent, to use their description) on issues like labour rights are, well, do I even need to list what's wrong with their business model? They're pretty infamous for their corporate irresponsibility.

I don't actually know what's going on with www.goodguide.com, but I don't find it a good representation of the companies and products listed. Some of their data is significantly in contrast to what seems to be happening.

That's why, unfortunately, you need to make sure you use plenty of different sources to form your opinions... you can't take information from any of these organisations as gospel (although obviously some of them are better than others, and goodguide obviously isn't really that good - apologies, I haven't really used it yet, just been pointed at it by friends and colleagues in the US... thanks for giving me the ammunition to point out that their standards are somewhat lower than mine!)

I guess that this really proves the point that it's about educating yourself and deciding what the important issues are for yourself. There's no easy solution, there's no one you can rely on to tell you what the right think to do is, you have to work it out for yourself, and use your own moral and ethical compass to guide you.

The good news is, that nualabuala has clearly found hers, so that's one more person trying to do the right thing, which is 90% of the battle. She's just got to make sure that she has the information she needs for it to be able to guide her to where she wants to be.

NualaBuala wrote: »

I'm using Oxfam's Fair Trade soap nuts for my laundry. On the one hand, they're not local but on the other hand they don't have nasty chemicals and hopefully buying Fair Trade helps too.

I'm trying to reduce, reuse, recycle and compost but I'm nowhere near perfect.

Don't forget to compost your soapnuts!

As for your next step - have you got reusable shopping bags? Cutting out plastic bags is quite easy to do.

VeganClaire

I would love to buy all organic, local veg but at the moment can't aford to (I don't have anywhere to grow it either). So for me I have certain things that I will only buy organic:
Bananans (also have to be fairtrade)
Chocolate (needs to be fairtrade too)
Carrots
Soya products.
Will only buy britsh apples and strawberries, and only fairtrade tea/coffee.
It might be easier to choose a few things which you will only buy an ethical alternative to as a place to start.

Fire_Fox

NualaBuala wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Over the past while I've been trying to live a better life and as part of that I want to be as green and ethical as possible. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed - it's so hard to know where to start. I've improved some of my habits like what I use for laundry but I'm very much a work in progress.

I'm not vegetarian but I haven't bought any meat in ages - I'm using up what's in the freezer. I had been planning to buy organic meat after that but as it's expensive it would mean eating meat only once or twice a week which is fairly typical for me anyway. I eat a fair bit of tinned tuna and frozen fish at the mo which would be hard to give up. I buy free range or organic eggs. I use a lot of milk, about 4 - 6L per week. This mainly goes in tea and a little on porridge. I was thinking of switching to organic but started wondering is there any point if I'm not using organic cheese, butter and other dairy products? And I had never heard about debeaking - on another thread I read that some organic organisations allow this. My motivation for going organic would mainly be animal welfare, and my next concern is the environment, then health probably.

Nuala

Try not to beat yourself up about what you are not doing - try to focus on what you are doing and what you intend to do, one step at a time.

If animal welfare is a priority you don't necessarily need to go organic. IMHO it's not the antibiotics or growth hormone that is inhumane - It's the living conditions and often transport conditions. If you can source locally produced meat, eggs and cheese you may be able to see the farm or at least find out about their attitude to animal welfare. You many find this is cheaper and more ethical than supermarket organic version.

The most moneysaving-friendly to start being more ethical is to reduce. Start off, as you have, thinking about what you are not buying or using and move onto thinking about what you could stop buying or using. Packaging is a biggie and one I can't say I have nailed.

"On average, how much of the stuff we buy, do you think, is in landfill within six months? This is a great one for dinner parties or down at your local – you might even slip it into the pub quiz. The reason it’s so good is because NOBODY gets the answer right. Not even the geekiest, anorakiest, trainspottingest, lifetime Greenpeace supporter gets it. Why? Because it is so ridiculous. No, it’s not ridiculous, it’s way beyond that. It is utterly, toe-curlingly, cringingly horrifying. The answer is: ninety-nine per cent."

http://www.ooffoo.com/

Trinny

Hi Nuala

I am a wannabe green. Its taken years for my family to pick up the good habits we have - but there are plenty on here that put me to shame, so dont be disheartened.

We started by recycling, reducing waste and reusing as much as possible. We then switched to fairtrade tea, coffee, bananas and sugar.
Then we started growing our own veges - bit by bit in tubs, old compost bags etc
We started car sharing at the beginning of the year and now share two out of five days per week.

Our latest is to try to buy food which has been produced in britain, ireland or europe where possible.

Each change took a few months to settle in. We kept forgetting to takeour reusable carriers into shops etc.

Change takes time - dont feel overwhelmed. I read a book called "save cash, save the planet" should be easy to find second hand on the web - it really got me thinking and gave me ideas

On the subject of meat - we buy free range eggs, chicken and otherwise we buy from our local farm direct - they do good deals on pork, beef and gammon/bacon.

We buy organic milk but still use anchor spreadable.

Baby steps work best

Trin