Council Tax: Single Occupancy - Residence vs occupancy

lincroft1710

As your sister is not the occupier as she lives abroad, it will still be an unoccupied dwelling and claiming that she is the "occupier" will still be CT fraud.

Happychappy

So you are saying the owner of a property, her only property in the uk, she must claim as unoccupied and not her main residence in the UK, and so every time she visits it, she can claim it as a single person occupied? I don't think so.

lincroft1710

She doesn't live there, doesn't at present own it outright and by your own admission in Post 83, probably will never use it, and from your previous posts when she is in better health the bungalow will be sold.

I only post based on how I see a situation based on the "facts" as given, having a working knowledge of some aspects of CT law and having read what has been posted by other people who have knowledge of other aspects. It's up to you what you tell the council, but a person who makes a financial gain by not telling the truth , commits council tax fraud.

CIS

Lincroft1710 is correct.

So you are saying the owner of a property, her only property in the uk, she must claim as unoccupied and not her main residence in the UK, and so every time she visits it, she can claim it as a single person occupied? I don't think so.

There is no requirement under Council Tax law that a person has to have a 'main residence' in the UK. A 'main residence' can be outside the UK and the person still have Council Tax liability in the UK - think Landlords who live in Spain or people who keep a UK home to live in for only part of the year.

she can claim it as a single person occupied

A single person discount requires the property be the persons 'sole or main residence' - it is neither if her main residence is abroad and she stays here temporarily.

educatingmyself

Birmey wrote: »

Hurrah, common sense has prevailed. The IRRV believes it seems reasonable to award the discount on the basis that my husband and I do not have sole residences but each of us has a main residence. My single occupancy discount has now been reinstated.

Thanks to everyone for helpful comments and advice.

Hi Birmey, I must remember this, I have been charged with 4 years C Tax for a home in which my daughter lived as an exempt student, because they decided that my intention was to return and therefore it was my "Main Residence", even though I lived, and still do, somewhere else and pay full C Tax!

Did they quote any particular cases or regulations etc?

Kind regards.:j

breezeblock

educating myself, I am in the exact situation with my daughter. My CT dept has said that they will reconsider if I can supply an alternative address council tax bill in my name. Unfortunately I cannot as I have been staying with relatives who already pay full CT and at other times working away and staying in digs/b&bs, so although I havent lived there I have to pay. I hate to say it but the poll tax would have been much easier to swallow than this. I am a little worried as I was planning moving in with my gf soon, but she already pays her CT and the bill is in her name, so I would have to contribute to hers and also be liable for my daughters. Its becoming a nightmare to be honest!!!

educatingmyself

Hi Breezeblock, lucky you, I have supplied all the information, they have confirmed with my present LA that my account is paid and up to date, as is my business rate account for the same property, which is dual banded, they don't care! I have now been to Tribunal, unfortunately, the morning following a suicicde attempt by my daughter and as you can imagine I was distraught and did not know if I was coming or going! Needless to say, I was presented by a full submission (full of lies/misrepresentations/mistakes) to which I was not given prior disclosure and therefore could not prepare a response full of evidence, and the Tribunal "deemed" that regardless of what I said, it was my intention to return to the appeal property and therefore it was my main residence and I must pay! I appealed and was refused because having a daughter who had attempted suicide and as my main witness was now not available and my distress was not enough to prejudice my case. Nor was not having seen the submission prior to the hearing so that I could prepare, so tough! I explained that both the decision of the Tribunal and the Appeal refusal were based on erroneous facts and still my Appeal for another hearing to present the full facts has not been granted. Add to that the fact that I am disabled and have a condition affecting my memory and intellectual ability and you can imagine just how difficult this was to deal with. They don't give a hoot!!

So good luck, because based on what I have experienced, it does not matter that you tell the truth or have evidence or could provide it if given the opportunity, they can "deem" what they like!

I think I should start a new thread asking for help with poss remedies for the Tribunal Appeal? :mad:

lincroft1710

educating myself - if your witness was unable to appear you could and should have asked for an adjournment. In my experience Clerks to Valuation Tribunals bend over backwards to help taxpayers especially where there are family emergencies or obvious cases of distress.

educatingmyself

Thank you for reply lincroft, they offered me the option to adjourn, but I was extremely distressed and I had a court case awaiting the outcome of the Tribunal, Committal to Prison for non payment of the c tax on the appeal property! I was distraught and thought I am a genuine, truthful person, I will tell the truth, they have proof of me paying in full at my new address what more could happen. I did not realise there would be a full submission, which I did not see in advance, quoting all sorts of stuff which I could prove to the contrary if I had the chance. I did not think that if I had lived somewhere for 4 years a group of people could decide that I had an intention to return! I thought it was like court and a previous tribunal I had attended, in that full disclosure was provided so that I could prepare my case? I thought it would be a simple thing to deal with, not that I would be presented as a deceitful liar trying to evade tax. The opening lines of the council's submission detailed all the ways one could defraud the government of council tax. That was not my intention and I did not realise I would have to prepare a whole set of counter arguements, I would have known to adjourn had I realised that was going to unfold! I was not fit to do that , it takes me hours to compile a simple email so to prepare a case would take a long time and lots of concentration. I must admit, knowing the system and the rules as they do, I believe the Tribunal should have adjourned the hearing to ensure I was fit to plead. They should have taken responsibility given that they knew what was expected and I did not. Everybody seemed to have the submission except me!!!

I have started a new thread URGENT HELP NEEDED - C TAX VALUATION TRIBUNAL DECISION APPEAL REFUSED to see if I can have get some pointers!

I am desperate and do not know where to turn now!

educatingmyself

Polonius56 wrote: »

Thank you for this. Some excellent cases, some of which give me little hope but others seem to be more in line with the way I see things ...

8.3.14 - Williams v Horsham District Council has some similarities to my case. Security of tenure and intention to reside at a future date are given weight but High Court held that insufficient regard was given to other factors and the Court of Appeal used the phrase 'a resonable onlooker when looking at the facts... "

My case relies on "other factors" and I am confident any "reasonable onlooker" would see things from my angle.

Also, 8.3.15 Sumeghova v McMahon says "the Court of Appeal held that a place were a person slept was of the uppermost importance in determining whether it was his main residence".

8.3.16A Parry v Derbyshire Dales ... "the High Court rules that he could not have had his sole or main residence there [Derbyshire] while he was resident in Spain.

Hi Polonius56, what was the outcome of your wife's residency? Or does anyone else know?

EM