The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

fc123

PasturesNew wrote: »

That's the bit I never got over the last 10 years or so ....

If I need money and I tell you I'll do XYZ for £12/hour for you ... you won't want it. If I tell you I charge £28/hour + expenses, you'll think the sun shines out of my ***, yet while I value my knowledge at £28/hour (or more), I wouldn't have the b4lls to ask for it .... so I'd end up asking for £12, while all around me people with less ability were charging £28 and getting bookings left right and centre. I just never got it... it's that confidence thing isn't it.

It's a really hard one. BIL quotes for IT services and stresses over asking enough to say' I am great, I charge this' and being competitive.

£12 phr sounds too cheap (for someone UK based). Cleaners charge £9 phr CI Hand.

I would estimate @ £22 phr as you don't have office overheads but offer just as good a job.

I am always suspicious of cheap food offers so never buy them ever. Like £5.99 for 3 courses type of thing. They are probably fine as the restaurant will over charge on drinks to make up for it, but it puts me off as sounds too cheap to be good.

Costings are the hardest part of my job beyond the essential costs of manufacture.

nearlynew

I read your last post on the "other" site fc and haven't got a clue what you are doing now. But good luck anyway.

And you PN.
Your "thing" is even more confusing.

scrooge2008

Well here is a self employed business idea for you Max.

There are, as discussed above, plenty of people with great small businesses as sidelines, myself included, but they don't have the sales and marketing skills to promote their product effectively, or the confidence and vision. Maybe, they just can't be bothered with that kind of thing.

A person with Sales and Marketing skills could network with the small/medium sized businesses through Business Gateway etc and offer their services on a 'No Win, No Fee' basis, charging as new clients are brought on board. Any business that you spot with a real chance of success, you could suggest a partnership arrangement.

Phirefly

fc123 wrote: »

charge extra, they may like it more.;)

Alas its a client I'm tentatively rebuilding a relationship with after they underwent a very public administration last year and its my first job for them since then. In the name of establishing an hopefully ongoing contract I offered to do this first job on a fixed-rate basis. Damn economic climate.

*edit*

Just had the client feedback...

these look absolutely fantastic thankyou very much! Sorry that you were working so late -i'm like that at the minute its crazy! So work out how many hours you've worked on it and what you'd like to charge.

Right i'm working on this range today so I'm excited now!

:cool:

mizzbiz

Phirefly wrote: »

Alas its a client I'm tentatively rebuilding a relationship with after they underwent a very public administration last year and its my first job for them since then. In the name of establishing an hopefully ongoing contract I offered to do this first job on a fixed-rate basis. Damn economic climate.

*edit*

Just had the client feedback...



:cool:

Nice one Phirefly - our own worst critic is ourselves, often others are overjoyed by the work we produce but as perfectionists, we only see the flaw/omisisons in it :-)

carolt

PasturesNew wrote: »

I could quite easily (possibly) contact some local places (I could put a list together in under a day) and put a proposal forward to do one day presenations where I teach what I know to local people/businesses at cheap rates, say 8 to a class... but I don't have the b4lls to do the approaching/negotiating.

I could create a company name and promote this myself directly, I could identify the correct channels in a morning .... but I don't have the b4lls to do it.

Many of us, through past life experiences and other issues, simply don't have the confidence to strike out. And that can't be changed easily. OK, some people can find confidence within themselves ... for others of us, it is akin to climbing Everest (which of course some people have done, but not all of us).

Confidence ... you can't buy it.

So true - but you could try anyway, and discover, once you've done it, that actually you can do it, and it wasn't that hard.

I did more or less exactly that a couple of years back despite being rather terrified - set up website, put up ads, and and although I still loathe the marketing/selling side, even a small amount brought results. Rather than face-to-face negotiation, or over the phone, why not try emailing or putting up posters or doing flyers, and then sit back and wait for people to contact you? Worked for me.

Or even better - why not set up a company with Max? Your skills and Max's proven selling ability? Maybe he could get a percentage of your earnings if he brings you any clients?

Win-win situation - he doesn't need to stop signing on, unless/until it takes off? Wouldn't take up much time for him, and you could give him great references if it does?

I think it's a confidence thing and it sounds like selling is much more Max's thing... plus I suspect that selling is more a man's thing, anyway (well, not all men - my OH is probably the worst person in the world at any type of selling...) - just men often have the power of bullsh1t better than women, who just don't like saying things unless they're 100% sure they're right.

So what do you think? If Max is any good, he can do some marketing for me too.... Marketing consultancy, Max? How does that sound?

PasturesNew

carolt wrote: »

I did more or less exactly that a couple of years back despite being rather terrified - set up website, put up ads, and and although I still loathe the marketing/selling side, even a small amount brought results. Rather than face-to-face negotiation, or over the phone, why not try emailing or putting up posters or doing flyers, and then sit back and wait for people to contact you? Worked for me.

So what do you do then?

carolt wrote: »

o what do you think? If Max is any good, he can do some marketing for me too.... Marketing consultancy, Max? How does that sound?

Marketing and sales are different beasts.
Marketing is reaching the marketplace, selling is closing the deal.
While the two are closely related, they are different skills for most, but often combined into one role. e.g. door knocking with a pile of leaflets is marketing, talking to the person at the doorstep and getting the order is the sales.

Harry_Powell

carolt wrote: »

So true - but you could try anyway, and discover, once you've done it, that actually you can do it, and it wasn't that hard.

I did more or less exactly that a couple of years back despite being rather terrified - set up website, put up ads, and and although I still loathe the marketing/selling side, even a small amount brought results. Rather than face-to-face negotiation, or over the phone, why not try emailing or putting up posters or doing flyers, and then sit back and wait for people to contact you? Worked for me.

Or even better - why not set up a company with Max? Your skills and Max's proven selling ability? Maybe he could get a percentage of your earnings if he brings you any clients?

Win-win situation - he doesn't need to stop signing on, unless/until it takes off? Wouldn't take up much time for him, and you could give him great references if it does?

I think it's a confidence thing and it sounds like selling is much more Max's thing... plus I suspect that selling is more a man's thing, anyway (well, not all men - my OH is probably the worst person in the world at any type of selling...) - just men often have the power of bullsh1t better than women, who just don't like saying things unless they're 100% sure they're right.

So what do you think? If Max is any good, he can do some marketing for me too.... Marketing consultancy, Max? How does that sound?

Some excellent ideas/suggestions from carolt. Lots of people are content to bemoan their lot and concentrate on things they say they can't do, when in reality it's often something they won't do. Great stuff carolt.

carolt

PasturesNew wrote: »

So what do you do then?


Marketing and sales are different beasts.
Marketing is reaching the marketplace, selling is closing the deal.
While the two are closely related, they are different skills for most, but often combined into one role. e.g. door knocking with a pile of leaflets is marketing, talking to the person at the doorstep and getting the order is the sales.

I run my own school - v small scale - but allows me to set my own hours. Plus self-employed examining/writing and consultancy work.

So PN - stop avoiding the question - why not sell your undoubted skills face-to-face, using Max or just non-face-to-face marketing methods if you prefer? I take what you say about closing the deal, which is partly why I suggested Max (or another, more local partner who could handle the face-to-face stuff you hate), but TBH once you've got interested punters ringing you up/emailing you, the only hard bit is saying 'yes' and agreeing a time/date. Fix prices on your marketing material, if you don't want the agony of negotiating prices in person - which is the bit I hate most - and then sit back. If you get no response, you've lost nothing other than the small amount of time required to put it together.

scrooge2008

Harry_Powell wrote: »

Some excellent ideas/suggestions from carolt. Lots of people are content to bemoan their lot and concentrate on things they say they can't do, when in reality it's often something they won't do. Great stuff carolt.

Totally agree, Harry. I think Max is different though. The idea of a blog was floated on this forum, and within a few days Max (with PN's assistance) had a very entertaining blog up and running. The majority of people would have dismissed the idea, and continued to sink into a mire of despondency.

I have a small ltd company doing debt collecting and accountancy work. There are a lot of opportunities out there for this line of work, particularly in the small to medium sized business arena. Taking over a client's collection and recovery work - their accounts receivable management. I have got very comfortable with one client, who are enabling me to tick over quite nicely, but I know that I should push myself and get things really moving.

Well I'm off to the sun for a couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to reading your blog in the Mail newspaper Max, as I lounge by the pool, as will have no access to the internet.